Why Smart People Stay in Toxic Relationships (And How to Break Free)

Most people don’t think they’re in a toxic relationship… until it’s too late.

In this episode, Todd sits down with Dr. Brooke Jones to unpack what really defines a toxic or abusive relationship—and why even smart, self-aware people end up stuck in them.

Resource Mentioned:

https://youtu.be/dNvt_zSiIkg?si=4d3ZYPqn1ZXwSYL7

This isn’t just about obvious abuse. It’s about the subtle patterns:

•  Love bombing that feels like “real love” 
•  Control disguised as care 
•  Walking on eggshells and calling it normal 
•  The cycle of staying, hoping, and repeating 

You’ll learn how to:

•  Spot the difference between dysfunction and abuse 
•  Recognize manipulation, control, and narcissistic behavior 
•  Evaluate your current relationship honestly 
•  Know when it’s time to leave—and how to do it safely 
•  Break the cycle so you don’t repeat the same mistakes 

If you’ve ever ignored your gut, justified bad behavior, or found yourself in the same kind of relationship more than once… this episode is for you.

👉 Resources mentioned:

•  Power & Control Wheel (domestic violence tool) 
•  StrongerWomen.com for support and guidance 

Dr. Brooke Jones is the founder and CEO of Stronger Women, where she helps survivors of domestic violence rebuild their lives with strength, clarity, and faith. With years of hands-on experience working with women in crisis, she specializes in identifying abusive patterns, guiding emotional healing, and equipping women to move forward safely and confidently. 

To support the UnYoked Podcast and to help others... PLEASE subscribe and rate.. right now. And if this resource is helpful, please tell a friend.

Transcript

Todd Turner (00:02)
Today's conversation is one a lot of people need, but not a lot of people are having. We're talking about toxic relationships, not just the obvious ones, but the subtle ones. The kind you slowly drift into, the kind you explain away, the kind you stay in longer than you probably should. And if we're being real, a lot of us just don't end up in one, we end up in a pattern. So today I want to go deeper than here are the red flags. I want to understand why smart self-aware people

Dr Brooke Jones (00:07)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (00:30)
still find themselves in unhealthy relationships, why we stay, how we actually evaluate the relationship we're in, and if needed, how to get out of it in a healthy and safe way. That's why I'm really glad to have Dr. Brooke Jones back with us. She's the founder of Stronger Women and has spent years helping women walk through abuse, healing, and rebuilding their lives with strength and clarity. This is not just theory for her. She deals with this stuff every single day.

Dr Brooke Jones (00:43)
and

Okay.

Todd Turner (00:59)
So if you ever question a relationship, ignore the gut feeling, or found yourself stuck in something you knew wasn't right, this conversation is for you. Dr. Brooke, I'm glad you're here. Let's get into this.

Dr Brooke Jones (01:12)
Great. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for having me, Todd.

Todd Turner (01:15)
this is going to be fun. Okay. Well, if the topic is serious though, so let me, let me say this, the word toxic is a big word. So I've used it before. And I mean, probably just in a way that says, I see something unhealthy reoccurring, but is there a definition of toxic or a clinical definition, or is that just the word we throw on something when it's really. Stinched with, ⁓ unhealthy behavior between two people in a relationship.

Dr Brooke Jones (01:22)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I think toxic is a great word for just a vernacular conversation of people explaining what this this relationship is not working for me. This relationship is not healthy for me. This relationship is not building me up. This relationship is tearing me down. I think I think when we hear that toxic, we kind of think of all of those things and it's a lot of different

components. In some cases, Todd, it can be an abusive pattern. And in many cases, we've seen what you're saying, toxic is definitely the way abusive patterns are described. In other cases, it might be more of a pattern that can be changed more easily by an individual. And it might be something that's not abuse, but dysfunction, right? Because dysfunction happens and...

We're just humans, right? Humans that are a work in progress and we make mistakes in life. And so there is a moment where we have to really determine toxic. Does that mean abuse or does that mean just dysfunction?

Todd Turner (02:52)
Yeah, that's great. That's what I was, that was part of my question is relationships are hard and we do have different communication styles, attachment styles. Like there are reasons that there can be rub in a relationship, but I guess there, there, where's that line between when is something toxic versus hard or when there, what's there between normal conflict and something a little bit more.

Dr Brooke Jones (02:54)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (03:15)
dangerous or nefarious, guess, if you will. So what are some of those things that you look for? it frequency? Is it the depth of the argument? is it what in the pattern should cause alarms to go off?

Dr Brooke Jones (03:32)
Sure, I'll explain easily the way we talk to our clients. It's just in conversation. If I was to ask any person, are you being abused? What do you think their response would be?

Todd Turner (03:47)
Most say no, I would imagine.

Dr Brooke Jones (03:48)
Exactly. So

there's no reason in the world that I should even ask that question because it's a ridiculous question. And it's a ridiculous question. Here's what needs to happen. There are diagnostic tools that are used to determine domestic violence. What we do is we take a tool called the Power and Control Wheel, and it's the Duluth model's

Power and Control Wheel, and they have done a great job of bringing diagnostic tools to those of us that work in domestic violence response, okay? So what we can do, this is a way men abuse women, and it's based in the central of the wheel on power and control. And anyone can just search this anywhere and just say, Power and Control Wheel, domestic violence, and it'll come up. Here's what we do.

We put a heading, we put it on a piece of paper and we make our own little flyer and we put on the top, describe your relationship. It's the only question we ask. We don't ask anything else, describe your relationship. If an individual, female, and I'm saying because the tool works how men abuse women.

Todd Turner (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Brooke Jones (05:02)
When they face and read this tool, it's based in eight segments. It's a wheel that they can look at about all the different types of abuse. When they start saying, ⁓ yes, that's me. ⁓ he minimized me. He blamed me. ⁓ He used economic abuse against me. wait, he used his privilege or the children or something like that. They begin to describe to us

the abuse they're facing. We never ask, are you being abused? We ask questions about describe your relationship because in that conversation, right, working with a client, you learn about is it social abuse, economic abuse, financial abuse, sexual abuse. There could be physical, but there's a lot of non-physical violence and a lot of people don't realize that. If I steal your phone,

Todd Turner (05:51)
Gotcha.

Dr Brooke Jones (05:59)
and I take your phone, that's non-physical violence. And that's actually a felony, right? People don't realize, but spouses will do it all the time, right? Tell them, your phone. But we use the power and control will. And Todd, if someone has a yes, confirmed yes to at least four of the eight segments, there is no doubt in my mind that that is an abusive relationship. And all the protocol that we go forward, our triage in that moment is this is abuse.

Todd Turner (06:04)
Mm.

Dr Brooke Jones (06:28)
We're moving forward healing with the victim and or the perpetrator could be a part of the conversation. Now we know how to treat them clinically. Joint counseling is not ever an option. Never an option. Once abuse is identified, it's never an option. Should never, should never, let me save you the data, should never be an option. And it's important that they're separate so they have their stories and they're not being ⁓ further abused.

Todd Turner (06:56)
Right.

And, either manipulated on the spot or when they leave, then it causes World War III or even deeper manipulation for the next visit. Right. Well, okay. So let's use that word manipulation. it part, and this is an ignorant question on my part, but this is what we're here for. Um, is part of manipulation, is it a power? it controlled? Is manipulation just a tool people use to gain?

Dr Brooke Jones (07:05)
100 % 100 %

Okay.

Todd Turner (07:25)
power over someone or is the manipulation part of the problem or is it just a tool they're using manipulation to keep you down to control you in the way they want you controlled so they can be in charge? Is that explain a little bit about what's going on in the role of manipulation in this?

Dr Brooke Jones (07:42)
Yeah.

Manipulation is definitely a tactic of abuse. Okay. Manipulation. It is, here's what it is. I get you to do what I want, the way I want, when I want it. Regardless. Okay. You are, whether you're afraid of me or you don't think I'll give you money or you think I'll hurt the children.

Todd Turner (07:58)
Hmm. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (08:08)
Whatever the reason is, it doesn't even matter what the outcome is, unfortunately. It's more about there's a fear factor in this relationship that is causing this person to act and this person to act, right? And so it's a power and control differential. And so when someone is manipulated, it is called coercion, right? It's like being a puppet on a string. You have no control.

Someone is gone from someone who might have had some power in some way and in the relationship, but now they're powerless. They're literally powerless, right, to this conversation and changing anything or having an impact in the financial aspect of the family or even in the child rearing what's going to happen with the kids. So someone in manipulation loses it.

Todd Turner (08:44)
you.

Dr Brooke Jones (09:00)
Even there's a very famous case, right? We talk about, you know, Gabby Petito, right? There was extreme manipulation in her case. I mean, it was supposed to be some love story. They're writing a blog. But when you look at factors that she was isolated and she was removed from her family, and there were many things that happened and she was manipulated, right, into becoming someone who unfortunately

became a victim that ended up in a very deadly situation. So domestic violence is, it's unfortunate, but it can also have a deadly outcome. And I think people don't realize that it's just abuse. He's just doing this. He's difficult, but it can become a problem.

Todd Turner (09:48)
Okay, this was not going to be on one of my questions, but now I got to know. I'm just curious. You know, we hear the word narcissist a lot, especially in the more women I know, the more I hear, well, my ex was a narcissist, right? It's a word we throw around a lot, but is a narcissist because of narcissistic behavior, is that lead into controlling which can lead to abuse? Like is narcissism a

I'm trying to figure out what the root and the fruit is. Is a narcissistic personality more apt to be an abuser? guess that's a great way I want to word that. is that always the trait of an abuser is to be a narcissist or is that a subset or explain that to me?

Dr Brooke Jones (10:18)
Mm-hmm.

Sure, would say in my opinion, and I'm working with myself, with narcissists, and with victims of violence and thousands of them, I would say that every narcissist is an abuser person. There's no way that they could not be. Okay, abuse is based on power and control. And a narcissist, ironically, while they seem that they are very strong and they're the one in control,

Todd Turner (10:49)
Okay.

Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (11:02)
they're actually an extremely insecure person. And it is because of their insecurity that they do these tactics which become the power and control wheel. So in my mind, when someone says I was with a narcissist, I'm saying to them, I'm sorry, honey, you're just not recognizing you were in an abusive relationship. Now they...

Todd Turner (11:13)
Yep.

Dr Brooke Jones (11:27)
Some people say I'm a narcissist, but they won't say they're a domestic violence victim or they've been through it. And those are the people that I love and yet I respect because unfortunately this is a label. I wear the label. It's a label women don't want. People don't want. Nobody wants it. So I don't ever shame anyone for just being like, it's a narcissist. But in the work I do, there's not one woman that I've not helped that hasn't had a narcissist.

Todd Turner (11:32)
Bye.

Gotcha. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (11:56)
as a mate, right?

I mean, that's just part of the deal. Abusers are 100%. They swallow you. They swallow you and you're lost in them. So you become a hollow shell, Todd, of what used to be a vibrant person. Okay? It's like they just take you over and it's like you don't even know what happened to you.

It doesn't even matter whether you've been abused, not abused, whatever. Abuse can happen in any relationship. And it's just like something you don't even expect. And you can miss it.

Todd Turner (12:30)
Yeah.

Well, that's, that's interesting because it's not, it would be so easy if somebody came in as an abuser right off the bat. The issue is there's, and I want you to expound. I am not the expert. Sometimes there's the love bombing at first, or there is the, me give you my best behavior at first. And then it starts trickling in with, with good behavior with bad behavior.

Dr Brooke Jones (12:48)
The end.

Todd Turner (12:58)
until you probably get to a point where it's a heck of a lot of bad behavior. But sometimes it's the, the nice compliment with the backhanded compliment. The, let me check in on you versus I want to know where you are at all times. Like explain a little bit that. And I know we, you, you were talking about a video that showed this example of the back and forth that a narcissist and abusers can use these tactics. Talk a little bit more about those.

Dr Brooke Jones (13:25)
Sure, so there's a couple things that you brought up, right? ⁓ Some definitions of things, right? Love bombing, gaslighting, like trying to understand what those are. And then also, how does it switch over the line, right? Like how do we switch over? you know, love bombing is definitely a tactic that abusers do and anyone who's been in an abusive relationship should know that that is a sign. Unfortunately, okay,

Todd Turner (13:53)
Okay.

Dr Brooke Jones (13:55)
I believe that abuse is systemic, means it's in every system, it's generational and spiritual. Well, you tell me what system doesn't believe that there's a happily ever after for a family, right? Our movies tell us there's happily ever after, our systems say you can get married, right? Generationally, everyone wants everyone to get together. They don't like breaking up in families.

Todd Turner (14:04)
Wow.

Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (14:23)
And then even spiritually, even the church or any faith, right, is like, the marriage or the relationship together, okay? So that's just kind of how it goes. So there's this belief system that when I meet someone, they're going to care about me the same way, right? We're going to enter this equally. That is what, that's not a bad thing, that's normal. And that's the, unfortunately, a person who's naive.

becomes a victim to domestic violence and abuse at the beginning because they were naive and they believed all of those things. So what happens with love bombing is I love you. You are the best thing Todd that ever happened to me since sliced bread, right? Like I want to know where you go. I want to know everything about you. I want to do this. Well, that eventually becomes something like stalking. It becomes what are you doing?

Right? And we're going to talk about that in just a minute when we talk about that video. So love bombing is, I love you, I love you. Now, in even our classes, we talk about women who are ready to re go back out and date because we're with them for 12 weeks and even beyond. And in that, there's usually an interest to go and date in some of our clients, which is totally normal. Nothing's wrong with that. But here's what we find.

Todd Turner (15:24)
Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (15:48)
The chemistry, what I say to them every time is the guy that you think you like and that your body is telling you like is not the guy for you. No, is not. No, your body is lying to you. That person is probably an abuser. That person is exciting. The chemistry is there. All the things that Hollywood and everyone's gonna tell you, but it's a lie.

Todd Turner (15:59)
Wow.

Dr Brooke Jones (16:15)
The guy that is for you that you're not even noticing is really under amazing, ⁓ probably boring, and probably someone who's not getting you all this and that. And there's a clinical reason for that because people in this state have been used to being da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, right? And that is unfortunately normal. So they're, I don't say predisposed because...

Todd Turner (16:38)
Okay.

Dr Brooke Jones (16:42)
People aren't predisposed to abuse because I've seen people be abused that have never had abuse in their life. So I never pre predict it. But what I'm saying is if you fall into it, once you've been into it, you are more likely now to be suspect to a narcissist love bombing you and going crazy. What you don't see is that those are tactics that they're doing to use power and control. Now they know everything about you. They know every password you have. They know

Todd Turner (16:43)
Right.

Dr Brooke Jones (17:11)
every mile that you put on your car, they know everyone you talk to. Now guess what? Now, Todd, if you mess up and you talk to someone I don't like, I'm like, wait a minute, I hear girls in the background. I don't like that, Todd. Like, what are you doing? Right, so all of a sudden things subtly change. Here's the other aspect that happens in a relationship because we're all believing that love is this romantic, chemical thing we feel.

Okay. And in that, what I discovered in my own life and I speak, I've told this to many with it, seen it, but I can only speak in my own life. We are more predisposed to be desiring, right? This thing that just is like more, more, more exciting, right? There's an insatiable part of us because we were trying to fill a need that we didn't have this people pleasing. So what I always tell everyone is recognize that

what you think, what your mind, what your heart, what your body is telling you you need may be false. And in abuse, the body keeps score. There's a lot of domestic violence expert work in the body keeps score about trauma and things. And in that journey, you have to also heal the relationship and how you seek love, how you feel self-love. And many of the women that we work with have low self-esteem.

Todd Turner (18:24)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Brooke Jones (18:36)
to point that they're willing to do self harm, to do things that are damaging to them only so they can feel that love and appreciation that is honestly just so normal, right? It's normal. So there's no one to be shamed for wanting this. What we're trying to do is help them find a way where they can learn how to have a healthier relationship and see those crossovers in the line about the behavior. Yeah.

Todd Turner (19:01)
Yeah. Well, let

me break in there. Yeah. Thank you. I asked too long of a questions. We have a great long answer. me fill it up a little bit more. I feel like sometimes you're right with this. You have different, you have clinical wording for things, thoughts I just have. But I think sometimes women who are used to this chaotic way of being in a relationship, they don't like or don't even know what slow burn love is like.

Dr Brooke Jones (19:18)
Yeah.

Todd Turner (19:31)
just evidence of love, not just the passion, but it started to make me think about passion. It's like when you love somebody or hate somebody, it's passion. And so the up and down, at least there's, that's what love is. It's going to be highs and lows or whatever. And it's like, it doesn't have to have the lows in it. It doesn't have to. And so if you just make it meet a guy who's not love bombing, doesn't come in hot. It's the slow burn. Those are probably the safest ones to have because they're not trying to.

Dr Brooke Jones (19:33)
Thank

Exactly. Exactly.

Todd Turner (20:00)
Prove anything or win you over in the first month, which is what I hear all the time. Like, we're so in love. It's like you just met them. You even know their middle name yet. How are you in love? I don't even understand it. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (20:13)
Exactly, for some reason having self-control, okay, becomes more a spiritual conversation I find in the church than a trauma-informed conversation. And we should be having more trauma-informed conversations about people waiting to get into relationships because it's really more about them being healthy and safe.

Todd Turner (20:27)
I

Dr Brooke Jones (20:37)
in their reactions to other humans and other relationships, right? And so for some reason we're like, you can't do that because there's a spiritual wrongness, but we're missing the point. The point is you got to get healthy, friend. Like I want you to get healthy. If you can find a program or a group or a community that can really help you heal.

It's wonderful. But what I found is our singles, unfortunately, like especially my women who are coming out of a relationship, they can be at any age, right? And they might be looking for another relationship and not looking for it. And it finds them. Okay, just happens. And so my thing is because they are uncomfortable being on their own two feet and standing solid, like who they are as a person, they're not ready yet. They're still, ⁓

Todd Turner (21:17)
Yeah. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Dr Brooke Jones (21:35)
They want to yoke too quickly. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but what I'm saying is because they're just not confident enough in them being a woman of God, them being a daughter of the king, and them being able to make their own individual choices that they find themselves, I need to have someone to make me complete. And that completeness is a falsehood. It's a lie from the enemy. I mean, really.

Todd Turner (21:38)
Yeah.

That's right.

I

agree.

Dr Brooke Jones (22:05)
But

they don't know that and because they've been shamed because they've maybe they're they're in a divorce and they've been shamed because of that. Maybe they had something up an affair or whatever. Right. And they feel shame by that. They feel less than and you're like, please don't. It's time to heal because until a person feels through whatever the journey has been, they're not going to be ready for that healthy.

relationship that's waiting for them to come at any time.

Todd Turner (22:36)
You're 100 % right. And then you'll get tricked by the same tactics that we were just talking about. go back to tactics real quick. I'm leading the witness. if this is wrong, don't make it wrong. One of them we just mentioned was just this love bomb at the very beginning, which is a tactic in itself to draw someone in, learn a lot about them so you can control them. And another one,

Dr Brooke Jones (22:41)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Todd Turner (22:59)
is what I'm assuming is isolationism. It's like, now we're together. Here's what that looks like. So what you can go and throw everybody out because it's just me and you, from the rest of the world. Is that not another tactic of just saying, I can control you when I get you away from your friends, from your old habits, from your old world, from even from family members so that I can start nominating you? Is that true?

Dr Brooke Jones (23:24)
There are two main tactics Todd that need to happen for abuse to occur and isolation is one of them, right? It's dependency and isolation. So the isolation is key because not only do I have to make someone dependent upon me in all the ways and it could be a different ways, but the isolation needs to be important because I need that person to be fully ⁓ engrossed into my needs.

Todd Turner (23:31)
Okay.

Okay.

Go.

Dr Brooke Jones (23:54)
Power and control needs someone to be the victim and someone to be sort of the abuser. So there has to be a power and control difference. So I have to be in charge of you. I have to tell you what to do. I have to tell you what not to do. I have to do all those things so that you can be a good person. You can be happy. And it's a very warped way. But the person who's being abused

Todd Turner (24:02)
Savior or the abuser of Savior. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (24:24)
Now their life completely transforms into every moment, everything they think is what can I do to keep this person from being upset, being angry, being this, being that. And again, and so it changes the motivation. So if I want you to never see your family again, because your family could be a voice I don't ever want you to hear, I will work to isolate you from your family.

Right? And then what happens is eventually once I've taken you away, I will keep you from your family and be like, girl, if know, Todd, if we love each other, you know how bad your family is. You know how they want to control us. Right? And the whole Romeo and Juliet kind of idea happens. Right? That whole idea of it's us and we're going to start our own life. ⁓

And you know, Tata, I'm not saying this as some, I am an expert in domestic violence, but I'm also saying this in my own personal life. Okay, because in my younger days, I was literally taken from a place by my partner to another place across the country. And the entire story was, we're going to write our love story, babe. We're going to do this. Like if you just leave everywhere, you know, I left everything. I left the people, my family, every social network.

And it wasn't until I was across the country completely alone, was just the two of us writing our love story, that abuse just became something I had never imagined. So isolation is key.

Todd Turner (26:06)
Okay. All right. So let's,

let's, let's, let's talk about these tactics. So there's two major ones that people may have seen or not seen or the say somebody's in a, an abusive relationship with a narcissist, right? We already saw that we already say those two work together. Explain a little bit about what your day would look. Let's go back to this video that we were talking about this idea of how

Dr Brooke Jones (26:11)
Mm-hmm.

Sharp.

Todd Turner (26:33)
the positive and the negatives are intertwined so when you're talking to them, it's not like they're total jerks all the time. it's it's easy to say, that guy's a jerk. But when there's tactics of love mixed with care, mixed with domination, like what does that look like? So that somebody might be able to say, yeah, I'm I experienced that right now. Explain a little bit about what that might look like.

Dr Brooke Jones (26:43)
Uh-uh.

Sure well the video called the line that hopefully they'll have a link for it is is it's it's under a minute and it's a it's something I've used as a training tool for about a decade I mean it's a great tool I've used it for teens I've used it for adults I've used it for all kinds of people for example it's about a guy who's talking on the phone to his girlfriend right and there's a line right he's gonna cross right what because

Is it love or is it control? Like, what's the deal, right? And it's a great tool. Here's an example. Hey babe, you know, hey Todd, how you doing, right? How's everything going? How are we doing? How's everything? And we're having a cute, loving conversation. Then all of sudden, wait a minute, is that girls in the background? Wait, what's going on? What are you doing? Where are you?

Right? So the voice changes, the attitude changes, the sharpness changes. Wait a minute. Are there guys there? there girls in the video? It's a guy talking to a girl. In our example, it's the opposite. So I would encourage people to recognize that when you are entering any relationship, there is a very, it's an easy line between love and control.

And what you have to do is listen to how they're talking to you when they don't have control over you.

Todd Turner (28:32)
Hmm, okay

Dr Brooke Jones (28:34)
When a person who is a healthy partner doesn't have control over you, you're at a place they don't know. You're with friends at a concert. You're out with your parents on some reunion. Who knows what? Yeah, they might miss you. And yeah, they might want to hear from you. But they are not going to send you 72 texts about who are you? What are you doing? Who are you with? Are you doing it? Are you with someone else?

Todd Turner (28:47)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (29:01)
completely two different people. So when you are apart from a partner, I think it tells you more about how that partner will be with you in a healthy or unhealthy relationship.

Todd Turner (29:13)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I love this. Okay. I don't mean to jump to the end, but this is how my brain is going. Okay. This feels like an ender, but it's not an ender. I guess what I, my question is this. So let's say someone is listening to this or like, you know what? I'm probably am in a toxic relationship and I've been in toxic relationships, but we sometimes feel in love, whatever the word in love means.

Dr Brooke Jones (29:16)
if

Sir?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (29:42)
people feel in love. Is it possible that, okay. ⁓ here's my question. Ready? Is it honestly possible if one of the victim realizes they're a victim, they go to the accuser and say, I'm seeing this behavior in you.

Dr Brooke Jones (29:42)
Yeah.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (30:03)
I'm not standing for it and they leave or they say, let's work through this and we'll, we'll Narcissist really get counseling because most Narcissists don't think they're Narcissist. I think they just are and they manipulate the world around their selfish behavior. So is it fixable is my question. Is it normally fixed or is the best route to put up your defense mechanisms, draw your lines and probably exit.

Dr Brooke Jones (30:21)
Thank you.

Those are all great questions. think here's one of the conversation tools that we we teach our women to use and they're very simple. Okay, it's when you I feel I want Okay, super simple like When you are faced with a conversation with a person you can say when you yell at me when you walk into the room

Todd Turner (30:43)
guys.

Yeah. Good.

Dr Brooke Jones (31:03)
I feel scared. want you to not yell at me anymore. Okay? Healthy statement. New partner. Healthy statement, right? How does that partner respond? What do they do, right? Do they... You know what? I yelled at you because it was your fault. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I had a bad day. Okay, ⁓ that tells you everything. If they blame you...

Todd Turner (31:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right. I'm only reacting to your actions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (31:31)
if they blame someone else, they don't take responsibility for their actions, that tells you they have no emotional maturity, they're not going to be a healthy partner, and you need to exit stage right. That's the answer. mean, yeah. But the problem, Todd, is we don't. And here's why we don't, because we've already got fallen in love.

Todd Turner (31:44)
Okay. That's the truth. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (31:55)
We've already fallen in love and I think hope, I teach hope to people and I love talking about hope, but I think hope also gets us in trouble when it comes to love. I think that we believe, we kind of project these dreams onto people. We hope for all these happiness that is going to happen. And I think, I'm talking for myself, as someone who had been in abusive relationships, I always wanted, I had hope.

that I would find someone who loved me, who cared for me, and that we could have a happy love story. That's a normal thing, okay? So I never want to shame people for having normal, healthy feelings. Unfortunately, they're trying to kind of look for love in the wrong places. They're working too quickly. They're moving to fill things with the wrong people because they're not ready to stay.

to stay the course yet, right? It takes time to really make sure that you care about someone, that you love someone. And I would say to any person who's been in an abusive relationship or in anything like that, you really need extra care as you pick a partner. ⁓ And I would get some friends, get some counsel, get some people that you care about to really walk with you in

building this new relationship. know, because Todd, many of your listeners are divorced. They're looking and praying for that new partner. They want that life. They want God to bless that for them, right? And they may be lonely, right? They're looking for things. And so part of that journey is ensuring that when they meet that person, that person is right for them. They're healthy and they're not going to find themselves ⁓

in an unhealthy relationship a couple years down the road, right?

Todd Turner (33:54)
Yeah,

no, it's yes. was gonna, it's funny. You said about the divorce because I was sitting here thinking the same thing. It's like almost never. I would use the word never, except I don't like using the word never never or always or never a bad word because they're almost never true pun intended. But when most divorces aren't well, we just decided we weren't compatible. I love them. They're great. They love me. It's just, we decided we're compatible and there's, there's normally

Dr Brooke Jones (34:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Todd Turner (34:23)
real trauma with a divorce. There's a reason the marriage didn't work. There's the fruit, there's the root, and there's all this stuff. And then when it ends in a divorce, you never really get to fix that stuff. So one of the worst things you can do is say, well, that really shouldn't work, but I'll go get a new one and that one's gonna work. Is there some toxic behavior normally in the marriage and normally from both parties to some level, to some level. But in this case,

Dr Brooke Jones (34:27)
⁓ Right.

Todd Turner (34:52)
If a woman was married to a narcissist, it would be foolish to go out and think I'll just meet another guy who won't be that much of a jerk. It's like, no, no, no, no. Like you, you've been in a toxic relationship. If you don't know the signs and you allow them and you don't draw the lines, you're going to fail again, or you're going to be in a horrible relationship. And I mean, I was sitting here thinking, I, I, there's no way to have stats on this, but I can't.

Dr Brooke Jones (35:06)
Okay.

I'm

Todd Turner (35:19)
I can only count on one hand how many people I've talked to that were married, met somebody immediately, got happily married and lived the rest of their lives with that person. Most people stumble into multiple relationships as they try to figure out who they are and what they want and heal. If they're even healed at all, some people don't even try to heal. They just jump in their relationship and it is, it's sad how many years go by that people

Dr Brooke Jones (35:20)
No more here.

All

Todd Turner (35:48)
fight until they finally realized wait a minute. see a common denominator here. It may be me and how and how I'm choosing and I see that over and over and over again and I'm assuming you do too whether it's divorce or not. It's just abuse like you said the tendencies to just allow these people in your lives because you're just you know nothing else and you just figure everybody's like this, but it's not true. Not everybody's a narcissist not all men are pig or not.

Dr Brooke Jones (35:53)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Todd Turner (36:17)
I mean, and so when I hear people say men are like that, it always scares me. It's like, ⁓ I hear a person saying everyone I allow in my life is not very healthy. therefore I think everybody else is not healthy.

Dr Brooke Jones (36:26)
and free.

Right. And I agree with you, labels like always and never and all people and, you know, everyone, those are dangerous labels because that's not true. And I have heard so many times, all men are abusers. I've heard all men, no abuse. I've heard no abuser can ever be restored. I've heard things and I don't believe any of those things. Right. I don't. I have seen miracles. I have seen people change and I am a person of faith. Right. And I have seen.

people who could be a terrible person change. And I think that that is when we really recognize that we're humans that can make mistakes, but we can be new people. It's important, right? And not signing everyone off. I will tell you that the percentage of abusive people that do change is very, very, very, very small. And an abusive person would need to go through, and I would recommend a multi-year

process to go through to learn because they have to learn how to change behaviors. Unfortunately, happens too often is the abuse might happen or divorce or situation. Let's maybe not even say divorce separation. Let's talk about that. And then all of sudden there's this reconciliation because everyone wants reconciliation. But as an expert in domestic violence, reconciliation like that is dangerous. It's so dangerous. And so

If the proper things have not been done and the abuse is not recognized and treated, them getting back together in reconciliation only typically means that the victim will be abused more. Down the road.

Todd Turner (38:13)
Yeah. Yeah. It's,

it's really interesting, you know, to tie it into biblical terms, you know, the Bible talks about how hard it is for rich men to get into heaven. And I know that's probably looked at in a lot of unhealthy ways, but the truth is when you don't have need, you don't need a savior. Right. And, the same with a narcissist. If a narcissist has money and God forbid good looks, that man has no need to go fix himself because he can just keep abusing.

Dr Brooke Jones (38:22)
Mmm.

Todd Turner (38:43)
He has the resources to go do it and there's the odds of a person to say I'm willing to give up all my behaviors and tactics that control everything around me is almost zero. I would imagine it's not zero, but it's close and then for them to say, yeah, why do I do this? And how do I stop doing this while they stop doing it? Like, you know, I mean, that feels like a really hard.

Dr Brooke Jones (38:54)
Afternoon.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (39:12)
thing to do. so unfortunately for women, what we're saying, I think we're saying is when you meet a narcissist, your best bet is to get away from them and then hold the line and not date narcissists. Like really pay attention. So I guess, I guess besides the two tactics you've been made at the first of the two tactics that narcissists use to set up the table, are those the red flags? Like

Dr Brooke Jones (39:34)
Okay.

Todd Turner (39:38)
Well, how do you know your date in an artist's and what's the easiest way to find out on date one or date two or is this something that you just say, okay, I didn't know at the beginning. I'm now seeing enough behaviors. Now I know like what do you recommend people to do an assessment check on themselves? And you did talk about the wheel to go look at I guess is a big part of that, right?

Dr Brooke Jones (40:01)
Yeah, the wheel is, I would say, the best diagnostic tool to recognize abuse. That is a very interesting question because I'm sitting at a first date and this guy or gal is charming, totally my type, saying everything I want to hear and I'm ready to have a relationship, right?

Even after the first meeting, I'm already believing with hope that wow, there might be a future here. So I'm not going to probably see a narcissist in day one, date one. It's going to be down the road that I'm going to see when all of sudden I need to go and change my schedule. Think about it. All of a sudden I got to change my schedule because I met some guy on LinkedIn and he wants me to go have a coffee with him.

Todd Turner (40:50)
Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (40:58)
What? Like, what's the response to that? Right? Like, what is that out of nowhere? So those are the kinds of things that I would say to somebody that you only know that over time. ⁓ I can't talk to specific examples, but I can talk to just knowing I've worked with women since 2013 through our charity. And I have seen many, many women get re into relationships.

Todd Turner (40:58)
Yeah, yeah, who's this? Right.

Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (41:24)
Okay, over the years. That's about all I can say. Lots of them. Lots of them. Lots of them. And in most every case, unfortunately, if they joined during our program, not after, but during, they found themselves into another abusive relationship.

Todd Turner (41:43)
Wow. Wow.

Dr Brooke Jones (41:45)
Even though, and it was like, if they made it past week seven or week six, they could do it, because that's boundaries, right? And things like that. But if it started sooner than that, then they were still in the thing. Or they might not tell the group the truth, right? And that's okay. People don't tell the truth, right? They're doing this and that, but they don't say like, no, I'm not doing that. But we all know. And it doesn't matter.

Todd Turner (41:59)
I swear.

Dr Brooke Jones (42:09)
But what I want all of my clients to do, and Todd, I know all of your listeners, you want them to do it, is we want them to be ⁓ safe, right, in whatever they do, because always dating, I think, is a dangerous thing that people don't realize. ⁓ Many people are assaulted by someone that they're on a date with, right? And that is a big deal. And so that happens a lot to clients that I'm with. And so that's another...

topic, right? That's important. And so I always tell people if you're dating again, if you're doing these things, that's okay, but be safe. If you need accountability partners, one of the things our groups do for the women is while they're in the journey, they kind of become friends, right? So they can text each other, they can talk to each other, and they have a community of women that are going through similar things. And that's important for anybody who's going through a journey. So

Any of your listeners too, would tell them if you don't have a community or a small group or a church or a friend group, ⁓ connect. It's real important to find that because we need each other, right? We need support.

Todd Turner (43:18)
Yeah,

I totally agree. I'm going to, I'm going to say another bold thing that I think is a hundred percent true. I know people, ⁓ I won't say any names. They will listen to this, but their argument to me is I'm ready to find my person and they go out on dates a lot. They're always going down on dates because they're like, I got to find my person and my argument, you know, the best way to find your person. Pray, pray for your person. Like pray for that person.

Dr Brooke Jones (43:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sure.

Todd Turner (43:46)
and be very picky. Now, it's not going out on the most dates. It's go on less dates and pray and have your friends pray and look for the right person and let the slow burn win. Not the guy who comes in and sweeps you off the feet. The guy who you may not like or think you like because his personality may not be right. That may be the healthiest guy for you. And fall in love with

Dr Brooke Jones (43:56)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (44:14)
You fall in love. Once again, love is not a feeling. It's their actions. And you will, when you get real love from somebody, you'll feel it in a way you didn't even know was real. You'll feel safe versus as you talked about, if you're in a relationship where you're always walking on eggshells, then you've got to change your behavior to keep that person satisfied. That how has anything in there involve love at all? It's just, you're placating.

Dr Brooke Jones (44:22)
Mm-hmm.

Good.

Yeah.

Todd Turner (44:43)
your partner because he's a narcissist and he's controlled you in a way that you have to watch what you will, what you wear, what you say, what you do, how you do it. And you're, they've got total control on you and you've given your life up to keep the peace. And it's like a real relationship wouldn't, wouldn't ask that out of you.

Dr Brooke Jones (44:58)
Right.

Right, and I think you brought up a key phrase, I'm walking on eggshells. And I really want to talk to your listeners about that phrase because a lot of people hear that, right? We hear that from friends, we hear that from family members, I'm just walking on eggshells around them, you know, whatever. But what people don't realize is that is code for I am facing a situation that is verbally and emotionally abusive to me.

I mean, that is what those words mean. And so when I hear someone say, I am very alerted to their facing an abusive situation. And so I think that we can become better in listening to our friends and our family and loved ones. If we hear them say those words, I'm walking on eggshells. Another thing that we hear a lot is, you know, I've tried everything to keep them happy, but no matter what I do, I can't keep them happy.

Right? And that speaks to abuse and power and control. Yeah.

Todd Turner (46:01)
Yeah, who's ever said that's your job. Yeah, it's all about control because that's not

what you're I mean, yeah, it's really funny because I had this conversation the other day of I just want you happy. It's like, you know, as believers, it's like, well, I my spouse happy, but that's not the trump card. Like, like, we're not supposed to just change our create unhealthy behaviors to keep somebody happy because

Dr Brooke Jones (46:13)
Yep. Yeah.

Todd Turner (46:28)
What can take make somebody happy may not be a healthy, a healthy thing, right? That's why people get themselves in troubles all the time in relationships. I mean, I mean.

Dr Brooke Jones (46:37)
Exactly. And people

who are abusive can't be happy by someone else. Does that make sense? so it actually is like a clinical dynamic about it. ⁓ There's a clinical dynamic about it where the victim feels that they have control over abuse because somehow they think I can make them happy or not. Right. If the victim thinks that they can, I made them mad.

Todd Turner (46:43)
⁓ yeah, yeah.

Okay, yeah

Dr Brooke Jones (47:06)
and that's why they hurt me after dinner, okay? Then they think that they're causing the abuse, which gives them some idea that they have control. But unfortunately, the victim doesn't have control over the abuse. The abuse is just happening no matter what they're doing. So this idea that there's power and control there, so the victim kind of is in this blame factor, right? Okay, I'm whatever. So the abuser just keeps abusing because the victim is accepting the fact.

that they're responsible for the abuse. And so it's this dynamic that keeps happening. And when the victim would step up and say, stop it, unfortunately, a couple of things can happen. The victim could be seriously injured, killed, right? Something terrible could happen to them just for standing up or something could change. And that's the difference between an abusive relationship and a healthy relationship is

Todd, if we're in an abusive relationship, when I speak back to you, even if I use my good words, you know, I use my words, ⁓ like my when you, I feel I want, those aren't gonna work on you because you're abusive, right? There's nothing about those words that are gonna matter and you're gonna come at me and you're gonna need me to conform to whatever you need. ⁓ And that's the way abusive relationships work. Healthy relationships don't work that way.

Healthy relationships are like, hey, I've got a problem. I can't do this. I need this. I, whatever. And the other person's like, hey, let's see what we can do to work it out. And the...

Todd Turner (48:45)
Yeah, can I care about

you and I want to, I want to help you in your, in your needs. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (48:50)
Yeah,

and you don't swallow. I always think about relationships as a Venn diagram, and I know Venn diagrams have gotten some bad press in the years, but this is really important. ⁓ When you think about a relationship, there's you and me, okay? There's like you and me, can see us right here, but then there's an us. There's kind of like an us, but the problem with abusive relationships is this you swallows me.

Todd Turner (49:19)
Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (49:20)
But when it should never be that way, it should be you and me still are separate and we come together, but there's still, right, these little parts of us that are separate, you, me, and us. There's a difference, but abusive relationships swallow a human. They take another person over. So as you have, we have friends.

We have loved ones, have people we know and care about at work. We can see them being lost to us sometimes. They used to be social, but now they're with so and so, and now they're like never there. They're a little more crazy, a little bit more hyperactive, a little bit more, you know, those are sites of unfortunately a friend and loved one that's being abused in a way and they're just trying to

Todd Turner (49:51)
Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (50:13)
you know, deal with it. ⁓ And I think ⁓ over time, the more you deal with people who've been in abusive relationships, I personally just come to sort of an empathy and understanding. can see it very clearly on others. But one of my goals, Todd, is to help as many people as I can understand these things as a friend. My gosh, you know, if you hear your friend saying, I'm walking on eggshells,

Todd Turner (50:27)
Right.

Right. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (50:40)
point them in the, as the domestic violence helps. Hey friend, you do need some help.

Todd Turner (50:44)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that. So let me make sure I heard something correctly. Your tactic that you give people that are abused to say, you know, when you do this, I feel this way, that little tactic, it's really not going to change the other person as much as it's an indicator to you that that person doesn't care. Like it's really a tactic for you to open your eyes to say, wow, I'm

Dr Brooke Jones (50:50)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (51:11)
doing a really good job expressing my needs and my issue and they're not responding correctly so that you have an aha moment. mean really that's the point of that tactic, right?

Dr Brooke Jones (51:23)
That's right. Try a healthy tactic on another human being and see what they do with it. Right? If they don't know what to do and they go berserk and they go crazy and they're doing this and that, you might have found yourself a narcissist or someone who's abusive. It's like, remember, this is what we tell our women. Boundary setting or healthy communication tactics don't work on abusive people. They just they just don't work. And so

Todd Turner (51:27)
what they do.

Dr Brooke Jones (51:51)
If you're trying to do that and they're not responding, they're not equipped to have a healthy conversation. So you yourself can keep yourself from being in their power and control dynamic. You can get both feet on the ground. You can figure out what you're doing and you can have a healthier relationship even if that other person is still unhealthy.

Todd Turner (52:08)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Brooke Jones (52:17)
for And it's really about gaining. It's more about self control. Right. When you learn how to speak clearly, you can speak emotions clearly and you lose the emotion. You can say to another human being that doesn't work for me.

Todd Turner (52:21)
Yeah.

Right. That's right. Well, it's so funny. I'm well, I know we don't have enough time for what I'm used to say, but I want to say it out loud anyway. I'm assuming it's your advice changes based on the situation. And here's one of the examples I'm talking about. If somebody hasn't totally gobbled up your independence.

Dr Brooke Jones (52:35)
It's like.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (52:53)
You might be able before it's too late, say this relationship is good for me. I'm out of here because you still haven't your house. You still have your job. You still have your network of friends and you can survive cutting that off. And I would imagine that is your best bet for those are listening that if you can get out of an abusive Narcissist relationship and land well, your entrance do it tonight. But sometimes these people have have control over you and you feel like I can't leave. I don't even have a car.

Dr Brooke Jones (53:16)
Yes, good advice.

Todd Turner (53:22)
I live on the other side of the country. I don't even have money. owns. has my credit card. has my, all I have is my purse and my tennis shoes. And what's your advice to them? Because they may not think they have any other option, but to endure and survive.

Dr Brooke Jones (53:32)
Yes.

Well, we work with women like that ⁓ all the time. And one of the things that they have to realize is what is the safety protocol? Whenever someone is recognizing they're in domestic violence and they're thinking about changing, leaving, getting help, we all have to understand it's the most dangerous time, the 75 % more likely to be killed or seriously injured.

I think the listeners need to recognize if you're all of sudden saying, I think I might be in domestic violence or I think someone I know is, recognize when they're leaving. they need to seek domestic violence help, whether that's domestic violence hotline, calling stronger or calling a shelter nearby, that is critical. You need safety planning. That idea that friends just go by and you jump in a truck and you leave, that is the most dangerous thing to ever do for a human being.

It takes planning, takes safety, we need to understand what the level of danger is, and there are great strategies to help someone leave. But I'm going to tell you, a person feels lost once they are sucked in by abuse. They feel they have no access, they have no money, they have no communication, they have no privacy. It's about privacy too, right? So these are things that, until this level of safety is addressed,

Todd Turner (55:00)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (55:07)
We don't know how to act because I'm not going to do something if someone's unsafe. I'm not going to be sending them an email like I normally do. Right. We don't do that because we don't want her to get hurt. We have to think about it. What's the best thing? And so it takes time. those if I would say any friend, this is my this is my best advice as woman to woman or man to man. I don't know how man do it. You can answer this time. I have come to learn.

Todd Turner (55:08)
Yeah.

Right. Right. ⁓

Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (55:36)
⁓ My intuition is my best guide. God brings me the Holy Spirit and when I get around an abusive person I vibe it like you don't even know it's like danger, danger, danger. And so I would tell my friends on this podcast and anything if you sense that I don't care who they are, how high they are in the anything.

Friends, if you feel they're abusive, you gotta get away from them. You just have to cut and run. It's about self-preservation and it's about preserving your own wellbeing and safety long-term.

Todd Turner (56:05)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm put a, put a caveat on what I'm about ready to say because you, you have real world experience. do not have, but I am sure there is somebody listening to this, whether it's as soon as this comes out or five years from now, it doesn't matter. This thing will live, live out and who knows who's going to listen to when.

Dr Brooke Jones (56:16)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Okay.

Todd Turner (56:34)
but they've probably been lied to by their spouse so much to think they have no other options. you're no good. You couldn't make it without me. You know, I'll find you whatever they have beat them down to believe the lie. And my point is there's a God in heaven who cares and sees you and there are systems in place to protect people like you. Like if you call the hotline, do the thing, pray to your Lord.

Dr Brooke Jones (56:43)
Guess?

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (57:02)
And there are options no matter if you believe there's not there is there's always a way God will make a way and I don't want you to do something stupid. But you know what I mean? Like like you said, it is a dangerous statistically very dangerous time, but your hope is not gone. It's not gone. There's there's a way out. There's a God who is in the business of Miracle still.

Dr Brooke Jones (57:07)
Yes.

Yeah? Yeah.

Todd, I have witnessed in my years of working with women miracles beyond miracles. I have seen God move in women's lives when they take a stand and a step and they move forward and they've got their faith, they've got their strength in Him. They are really powerful.

And I have seen amazing stories and testimonies of these women. And many of these women then become spokespeople to help other women and grab their hand and bring them through. And that's how it is, you know, it's just one woman helping another woman, helping another woman. And that's really what a lot of times we find in bringing our groups together, is they support each other, encourage each other and build a new friendship relationship.

Todd Turner (58:08)
Right.

Yeah. I love that because it's, is something there's one thing about getting out of the house. It's another thing to think, well, where am I going to live? What am I going to do? There are people out there who provide emergency housing, transitional housing, long-term housing, teaching you a trade, getting you your identity back, new identities. Like there are systems in place. are nonprofits out there that do great work and they are available. ⁓ so don't

Dr Brooke Jones (58:35)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (58:36)
believe it if you just think, ah, there's no way I could do it yet. There is a way there is a way. Um, and, and, know, I, I just got through taking a giving university class and I'm learning about all these nonprofits out there. And there's so many great places doing some amazing things and people the Lord are giving to these things. There there's, there's some great resources out there and yours is one of them. So let's end with that. So I was listening to this and they're like, okay, I guess I better go watch that video and I best go down better download that wheel.

Dr Brooke Jones (58:58)
Yeah.

Todd Turner (59:06)
But tell them what do you recommend for somebody who's saying, okay, I may be in some of these patterns. I may not even be in one right now, but I see the pattern and I'll probably get another one. What should I do? Like what is your answer for the takeaway for the so what for today?

Dr Brooke Jones (59:07)
Yeah.

See.

Yeah, would say anybody who's questioning their own relationship, a past relationship, a future relationship, would say download the power and control wheel and study that. Get familiar with that and understand it. when you, if you, when and if you date or work to find a partner, understand what is that feel like? What is abusive patterns? What are those, what are those like? I would also tell a person that really,

resonate with people who you can ⁓ talk to about new partners that you're going to be with. Find a peer group, wise group, council group that you can have them meet. Have, whether it's ⁓ ongoing relationships, I would also discourage anything quick, any quick romance, anything that says, baby, we're going to change the world and we're going to write our own love story.

That to me sounds like abuse about ready to happen. And I don't want that to happen to any of our friends. I want your heart to be right and I want you to find your soulmate, but I want you to find your soulmate and stay well and stay healthy. And it can, it's okay if your soulmate takes time. Isn't that the proof of the soulmate, right?

Todd Turner (1:00:38)
That's It's so funny.

You say that I literally was going to counter that with this and that is you don't find a soulmate. make a soulmate, right? It's like it's not like here's my soulmate. So therefore I got to put up with everything else because that's my soulmate. No, no, no, no, create your soulmate. Create the relationship create a healthy relationship.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:00:48)
Mm. Yep. Yep.

Todd Turner (1:00:59)
lean into one another with love, true love, not feelings, but the actions of love. The Bible tells us what love is and all the behaviors of love. And if we don't see that, then we're like, well, that's not love. And so I don't like the word soulmate, but I'm okay with it when you invest into a soulmate and it creates a soulmate situation. I'm down with that.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:01:13)
Mm-hmm

I love that.

Yeah, I

agree. I agree with you. And it's...

Todd Turner (1:01:23)
Yeah, the Disney version

of Soulmate like we see movies and people meet each other in an hour and a half. They're already falling in love and walking off to the sunset like that's impossible. You can't fall in love in an hour and a half.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:01:35)
Right, and that's the challenge because our society tells us that's love and that to us is uh-oh that's an abusive relationship about ready to start and I think that's what we need to realize is just because we're seeing it out in the world we're seeing it and we think that's the truth it's really not the truth so I love what you're saying invest in this soulmate build a soulmate

Ask God for that soulmate because over time, that's the relationship that will stand the test of time that we need to survive. The challenges of life, right? You need somebody who's gonna stay with you in good and bad. And that's what we need. Who's not gonna hurt you for their good, right? So that's not what love is.

Todd Turner (1:02:12)
That's right.

That's right. That's right. 100

% right. I tell everybody a little bit about your website and what they can do there.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:02:24)
Sure, ⁓ StrongerWomen.com. We have different information. There are emergency resources and quizzes so people can take that. There's information about classes. And if someone wants to join an open group or a training that I have coming up or an upcoming class, they can hit the contact us on the website. That'll come straight to me. I'll reach out to them and we'll get them plugged in and we can work together and begin to change lives.

Todd Turner (1:02:53)
Love it. Thank you for spending the time helping us. I've learned a lot today. I hope our listeners have as well. This won't be your last time here. So everybody stay tuned. Thank you very much.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:02:57)
Mm-hmm.

You're welcome. Thanks Todd for having me on the show.