Sex as Currency: Unhealthy Power Struggles

“Sex as currency” might grab your attention… but that’s not really where this conversation stays.

In this episode, Todd Turner sits down with Dr. Brooke Jones of Stronger Women and quickly moves beyond surface-level dating talk into something deeper—trauma, abuse, identity, and the patterns that quietly shape relationships.

What starts as a conversation about sex in modern dating turns into a powerful look at how people—especially those coming out of abuse or broken homes—learn to use what they have to survive, feel loved, or regain control. 

This isn’t about judgment.
 It’s about understanding the “why” behind behavior—and what it actually takes to heal.

🔍 What you’ll hear in this episode:

•  Why “sex as currency” often starts as a survival response, not manipulation 
•  How abuse (emotional, physical, spiritual) shapes relationship patterns 
•  Why people stay in or return to unhealthy relationships 
•  The “aha moment” that finally leads to change 
•  Why healthy relationships can feel boring after chaos 
•  How dopamine, trauma, and attention-seeking behaviors are connected 
•  The truth about boundaries—and why people struggle to set them 
•  Why communication is one of the most important relationship skills 
•  The role of identity, healing, and taking ownership after divorce or trauma

Call to Action:

If this episode hit home, take a step forward.

Learn more about Dr. Brooke Jones and her work helping women heal and rebuild at:
 👉 strongerwomen.com

And don’t forget to subscribe to the UnYoked Podcast for more real conversations about faith, relationships, and rebuilding your life the right way.

To support the UnYoked Podcast and to help others... PLEASE subscribe and rate.. right now. And if this resource is helpful, please tell a friend.

Transcript

Todd Turner (00:01)
Welcome to the Unyoke podcast. God designed sex for marriage, but let's be honest. Many single Christians are swimming in a culture that turns something meaningful into dopamine hits, transactions, and even currency. Today isn't a theology talk about right or wrong. It's a real conversation about why people trade something meaningful for something temporary and how bad patterns often get replaced with new bad patterns. I'm joined by Dr. Brooke Jones from Stronger Women.


Todd Turner (00:30)
Brooke, when you hear the phrase, is currency, how do you see that play out and help us unpack what that term really means?

Dr Brooke Jones (00:39)
Well, first of all, thank you, Todd, for having me on the podcast. I'm so excited to talk to the listeners about this topic. Sex is a currency. I actually hear that a lot. I am an expert in domestic violence work, and I've been doing this for about 15 years, and I've been a survivor of domestic violence through my whole life. So I bring with me kind of practice skill set. But here's the thing.

Sex as a currency as a female when abuse is present, okay, when we look at abuse, we look at abuse systemically, which means it's in every system. Abuse is generational and I believe that abuse is spiritual. Okay, and all of that plays into grooming a young girl into the teen girl to the young adult girl that

comes into her relationships. And sex as a currency, as women become, as they learn very young, the ability to have sex as a currency is important because we have power in sex. When we're in an abusive relationship, many times verbal abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, take that away from us.

And as a female, there's very few things that we have power over, right? But that is one thing that we have some limited power over. So sex, unfortunately, I would say becomes a currency even as a young girl who's being groomed in the domestic violence and an abusive home because she realizes that's a way for her to get attention, to get love, to get validation.

to get all the things that she is lacking in her home life. And fortunately, they come from ⁓ home lives that are broken. And I'm speaking from my own experience. So I'm not just like speaking to someone who just had that. I had that. I sought love and attention and validation because I didn't have that from my home, right? There was no safety. There was no trust. There was no...

poor home value. So I was always seeking that. Which made me easy prey to individuals who were easy to love bomb, right? Do all the things that would make me feel loved and appreciated so that I would perform sex as a currency. Then what it does, unfortunately, as the person who is the victim or the person who's left, you're left with

nothing, there's no transaction. It's just a, it's a hollow transaction. There's no real love and appreciation and relationship to follow. And that's unfortunate. And that's what follows kind of abusive cycles. But women have used sex as a currency for a long time. There's power. Women will ⁓ be sexually ⁓ aggressive, right? Often after an abusive relationship.

We've seen it all the time. I'm not judging anybody, so please, Todd and all the listeners, please don't even take anything I'm saying as judging, because I've been there. I've done all the things personally, and I've been there. And my job as Stronger Women right now is to help them see that's not really filling you up. It feels like it is, but it's actually a false bridge.

Todd Turner (04:23)
That's right. That's right.

Dr Brooke Jones (04:29)
that is going to break down. But only when they do the work that's really necessary. Do they take the paths through the struggling times, through the endurance times, through the character? It's like Romans 5, 3 through 5, where it talks about endurance produces character. Character produces something wonderful, right? And it produces hope.

and it's a perseverance. And so I've realized that the women are going through this, but if they can learn to not live on the currency of the sexual encounter, they'll find a deeper relationship with the Lord. They'll find a deeper relationship with themselves and definitely build self-esteem and boundaries, physical boundaries.

Todd Turner (05:18)
Yeah,

this is wonderful. Okay. I'm going to back up a little bit because I'm going to sort of explain how we went from a divorce podcast to episode on sex. So this is our part two episode on sex to how do we get into these mesh wonderfully. And let me set the table for our listeners and for you for the rest of this conversation. So I want to say something that's really for everybody. And it's almost therapeutic for me to say.

Dr Brooke Jones (05:34)
you guys.

Fantastic.

Todd Turner (05:45)
When I decided to make a divorce podcast, was going to boldly, I'm going to use the word boldly, ⁓ talk about the different landmines and opportunities that come from divorce and unyoking, thus the name unyoked. And one of them was sex.

And I wrote that episode for a full year because I didn't want to just throw it out there. Like I really thought about it. I ran it by pastors. I ran it by friends. I prayed over it. And it's my most listened to episode, most watched and most listened to and most visited web page on the site. Imagine that sex, but it's because people are out there looking for answers, looking for validation. Well, here's what happened.

I've had people write me personal letters saying, thank you so much for that episode. Wow. You're bold. Wow. You're crazy for even coming out and talking about this. Thanks to you. I no longer have sex before marriage. And then the next day I'll get an email. Thank you so much for doing that. You've really given me a new lens and now I don't feel burdened by the rules and now I am having sex before marriage. I'm like, how do I run an episode that two people can listen to?

And yet the two different things that so I've really been struggling with that and I've been thinking about how to do a part two to go deeper not replace what I said because I believe in what I said because I was just touching the elephant about here's how people feel or whatever. So when I met you and you and I were talking about sexist currency really opened my eyes to this thing. And so at the hook of this episode, I said this isn't about theology right or wrong, but that's really not a hundred percent true.

because everything involves theology. If God is in his rightful place in our lives and he is our object of worship and God is good and he loves us and his laws are not for don't do this, don't do that. There are reasons he created sex, he created marriage, he created a plan and if we live with those correctly, they operate correctly.

Well, what happens is as we get selfish and we start creating our own gods and our own wants, well, these, what you just mentioned, I'm tying this together. What you just mentioned, as men have power and money, we use those influences to get our desires, which is sometimes sex. Women uses their beauty and sex to get what they want. So men sometimes use

Dr Brooke Jones (07:57)
Mm-hmm.

Huh?

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Todd Turner (08:21)
use relationships to get sex and women sometimes use sex to get relationships. Men use power and money to get sex, women use sex to get power and money. It's, we're both misusing and abusing our powers to get what we want. And so there's some people who are gonna list this episode, they're like, well, why don't you just land the plane on if you're out, sex outside of marriage is wrong. Well, my argument is,

Dr Brooke Jones (08:45)
to that.

Todd Turner (08:46)
Sex

inside of marriage can be a sin too, because if people don't, if they use sex as a transaction, they're sinning as well. So this isn't a, that's why I said this isn't about theology. It's not to say premarital sex or post-marital sex is wrong. is when we use our selfish powers to get what we want, things become transactional and it's unhealthy. It's unhealthy. And that's why I want us to have that lens as we're talking. That's why

This podcast is having this topic because to your point, when you are groomed into this way of thinking, then you live out this way of thinking, which is why some women get married and they quit having sex because they use it as a tool to get what they want. They've already got it. And then they cut the sex off because they always saw it as a transaction. And that's why sex sometimes stops after you're married. It's this very topic. I wrong? Tell me where I'm wrong. But this is the lens I have on.

Dr Brooke Jones (09:35)
Mm-hmm.

So ⁓ there's many reasons sex stops after marriage. There's many reasons and I'm not an expert in that. But what I am an expert in Todd, is an expert in domestic violence. And what I know is that sex in marriage is used in domestic violence couples as power and control. Women can be raped by their husband.

Todd Turner (09:48)
Right. There.

Dr Brooke Jones (10:12)
Sorry to be so bold, but we're talking bold. Women can be forced by their husband to have sex with other men or do other sexual acts they don't agree to. Sex can be used in so many perverted ways. So sex is one element of abuse, right? So I don't look at sex as someone responding. I look at somebody as this has been a perverted abuse.

that has happened to them for a long time. They might be exploring something they've never experienced because they've been under control for a long time. What we have to do is keep this person safe in their journey of exploration and doing all the things to say, okay, that's what you're doing, but the truth is that's not real love. That's not real love.

Todd Turner (11:05)
That's right. That's right.

Dr Brooke Jones (11:09)
You can have an in-between. Nobody cares about the in-between. But please don't assume, dive, love to this to be your next love because if they do, they've never healed. There's never been health. There's never been the thing they need. So they're going into the same relationship. And so for me, we get in our programs, we do a 12 week program with our women.

Todd Turner (11:38)
Okay.

Dr Brooke Jones (11:39)
And it's week six is boundaries, right? So halfway through, right? So usually about this time, if anybody is going to have been redating or re-upping or whatever you call it, right? We don't shame anybody for anything. What we say is, are you safe? Is it safe? Who is it? Like, who is this person? Is it new?

Todd Turner (11:56)
All

Dr Brooke Jones (12:07)
Is your ex? it whatever? Right? And then is it real? Right? Because I think that the ⁓ you talked about the dopamine I think earlier and ⁓ one of the things that we talk about I talk about with my women every time is that the healthy relationship will seem boring. Every time, every time.

Todd Turner (12:26)
That's right. When you live on adrenaline,

you need you create the chaos and invite the chaos in to keep yourself. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (12:32)
Yeah.

So the relationship, the guy, okay, let's talk in women terms. And I'm not, ⁓ I'm just gonna put a note out here. Men can be abused. I have helped men. I know men can be abused. And we're not talking about that topic that that could be a topic. But when women come to me and they are dealing with things.

Todd Turner (12:52)
That's right.

Dr Brooke Jones (12:57)
they have to make the decision to make the changes in their life, right? They are the ones that have to make the decision to say, I'm changing and I'm going to make a decision to be different in my life. And that's when we begin to work with them, right? And it's until that point that you can't really work with the person until they're ready, right? Because they are still ⁓ trapped because people

Todd Turner (13:25)
Well, they're living an empty,

it's an empty life of transactional. You finally get to the point of saying there's got to be something better or more and it can't be everyone else's fault, even though everybody can have blame, but you're the one responsible to say, I'm going to stop that. What part do I own?

Dr Brooke Jones (13:29)
Yeah.

Yes.

At the end of the day, when we work with people, they have to come to two words. I decided.

Right? If someone doesn't say, I decided to do a change. I decided to lose weight. I decided to get off drugs. I decided there's really not much you can do with someone except love on them. Right? But it's when they're ready to move. And what I found with the women as stronger women, when we present, we talk a lot about hope. Hope is a skill. So we teach the women how to have hope as a skill.

Todd Turner (13:52)
That's right.

Dr Brooke Jones (14:23)
Right? How to establish goals, how to establish pathways that develops the willpower for a person to like get to the next stage. Right? So even if they're hopeless and helpless and things, we can at least have a conversation. There's always something that you can have a goal in. Right?

Todd Turner (14:44)
No, I, I

love that. There's so many nuances and so many questions I have, but can I, can I back up and just ask this big question? We were talking, you mentioned the word dopamine. I do believe that there is a large section of people who they grew up in chaos. They only know chaos. When chaos doesn't exist, they subconsciously or consciously create chaos because they thrive in that. They live in it. When it comes to, to women who are sort of tired of men, I feel like it flips two ways. It's either.

Dr Brooke Jones (14:49)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Todd Turner (15:14)
I'm done. And then you get an isolated lonely, bitter person because we're not built for that. Or you get somebody who just says, well, maybe I'll change this guy. Or the next one is, well, they're not going to change, but I'm going to manipulate the situation where I can tolerate it. Or I'll try to use my seductive powers to, to at least keep him at bay for the best I can. what, like, what is that mindset of how, what happens to people who've been abused?

Dr Brooke Jones (15:15)
Yes? Yes? Yes? Yes?

⁓

Todd Turner (15:43)
or live in chaos. Like, what does it take a horrible moment before most people flip? What makes people get out of this crazy, crazy world that some people live in?

Dr Brooke Jones (15:58)
So I have seen, thank you for saying all that Todd, I have seen all the cases that you've talked about. I've seen people in every range and sphere of care, sphere of response, sphere of domestic violence, and I've worked with them all, right? And we can address. ⁓ We like to call the moment the aha moment. That's the moment.

Todd Turner (16:24)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Brooke Jones (16:24)
Now

there's a thousand moments that lead up to the aha moment, but it's the aha moment. That's the one that you're like, it's do or die. It's make or break. He's going to kill me or not, whatever it is. And every woman that we work with has that moment. It comes to this place and I can't tell you what that is, but everybody who's in the situation gets it. ⁓ Recognize that women will go back.

seven times on average. Remember they don't go back because they love abuse. They go back because they don't want to be homeless. They don't want to live in their car. They don't want Johnny mad because he can't be in soccer practice. And why are you doing this to me, mom? So a lot of people are like, why will she go back? Because there's so many systemic restrictions to her to getting the help she needs.

Right, so part of the challenge is mom may want to leave, but she can't. So when sex is involved, which is always involved in marriage, it's a transaction, it's part of the deal. Different cultures also look at it differently, right? Shame cultures look at sex differently. Western cultures, American, we look at it differently, right? There's legal rights, I can get divorced, but if I'm in a shame culture,

I could still be in America, but my culture won't let me. They're going to kill me if I get divorced. So I'm not doing that. right? So we're facing all of those different ideals, right? And so what we look at is we look at danger first. We always look at danger with a woman first. Where is she in the spectrum? Does she know she's being abused? Because a lot of women don't even know. Right.

Todd Turner (18:00)
But yeah.

No, because

we grew up in the culture or they grew up in that subculture. They think that that's normal. Men are this way. Women are this way. That's the way it is. I'm going to play the cards that are dealt me to keep myself either sane or dopamine yet or whatever. And they don't realize that there's actually another way out is some of it. And to your point, I think I want to reiterate what you said, or they're in a world where they think they have no other, there's no other choices.

Dr Brooke Jones (18:24)
Yes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (18:49)
There can't be something better. don't even, they don't even know how to envision it, much less aim for it.

Dr Brooke Jones (18:50)
Right.

Yeah, and I'll talk about the dopamine hit specifically. We do a one of our chapters is on boundaries and we talk about how to set healthy boundaries. But actually we do that as a second part. We talk previously and more importantly about why they won't and don't set healthy boundaries.

Okay, and that's what you're talking about, the dopamine hit. Okay, that's where we're going with that. Why don't I set a boundary? I wanna say no, but I can't. I say yes, but then I'm angry. Right, I'm angry.

Todd Turner (19:35)
Yeah. Why did I say yes to that? I

came in gun to say no, but I said, yes. Why did I do that?

Dr Brooke Jones (19:41)
Right, now I'm banging the pots and pans in the back, I'm mad, whatever. So we try to address that upfront. And we try to address it and say, okay, you're people pleasing, you have hypersensitivity, you are codependent, right? You have all these ⁓ needs about shame and blame, and you think you have to be friends with their friends, and you have all these reasons why.

You can't set healthy boundaries. So why don't we address those first, right? We look at that and say, why don't we say, why can't you set a healthy boundary with this person? Now, Todd, the thing is, abusive people will not accept healthy boundaries. Okay? So is this, so what we talk about is, is this person healthy boundary or not?

If it's not, then you just accept it and you logically know, I'm gonna deal with abuse in this relationship. But there's a big difference in knowing it versus being captive by it, right? So, and like I said, midway through our course, we go through like all the relationships. Adult children often abuse mothers. It's a big deal. A lot of court history and...

Todd Turner (20:50)
That's right. That's right.

That's right.

Dr Brooke Jones (21:06)
court custody is abuse in the court system to bankrupt the mom. ⁓ So many things happen that we're just like, how can we support the people that are going through it, right? Through hope and healing. That's what we try to do. But ⁓ we can't do everything because there's so much a person needs, right? So yeah. No, please do.

Todd Turner (21:28)
Well, it's, can I interrupt for a second? I, it's

something you said, I think it's really big. You could tell somebody something all the time, right? And they don't, until they tell themselves. And what you do is you put them through an exercise where when they say it, sometimes you just say it out loud and then you hear yourself. There's an old phrase I love, thoughts disentangle themselves over the lips and through the fingertips. When you talk and when you write these jumbled thoughts start having meaning. And so when you make people look at their relationships, when you make them

Dr Brooke Jones (21:34)
Yeah.

Yes.

Ooh.

Todd Turner (21:58)
say it out loud, like, wait a minute, I'm literally saying this person isn't healthy for me and they finally get it. You're like, oh, I've been telling you they're not, but now that you've said it, now you hear it. And then I guess your next step is, okay, now that you've identified healthy or boundaries that need to be placed and who may or may not accept it, I guess the logical conclusion is you may not need that person in your life. Like, what does that look like?

Dr Brooke Jones (22:14)
Mm-hmm.

Well, then part of boundaries in the lesson is we teach them four steps to setting healthy boundaries. The first step is define your rights. And I'm gonna tell you, the women struggle. They struggle with defining their rights. It's not so much communicating them, it's defining what do I really want from this person.

Then I teach them a skill that it's very simple. It's a communication skill. And I'll tell your listeners today. You can teach your children this. It's super easy. You can do this with business or personal.

When you say anything to me, can say to you back that I understand how you feel. And when you say that you want to break up with me, let's say we're doing a conversation as a couple. When you say you want to break up with me, I feel hurt and wounded. I want to know what we can do to mend our relationship. Okay, just like think about a child.

When you steal my red crayon, right, I feel hurt. I want you to give me my crayon back. Okay, so it's when you, I feel, I want. And that we found, I teach that to all of my ⁓ clients, all my participants as part of our conversation with anyone we work with, because ⁓ quite frankly, you can't say,

Todd Turner (23:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (24:03)
I to be honest with you. can't say I feel like don't say I feel like because you're going to add a word in there. That's not a good word starts with an a ends with a hole. You can't do that. Right. Not doing that. I feel like you're in whatever we're going to say. I feel you have to use a feeling word. Do you understand? It's important. You have to go I statements. That's all the way when a person is willing to step up and be that communicator.

Todd Turner (24:12)
That's right.

Mm-hmm.

Dr Brooke Jones (24:31)
they're going to have a better relationship with everyone around them. Yeah, yeah.

Todd Turner (24:35)
Amen. Amen.

I am an advocate for great communication versus playing out your feelings with actions or silence. Words are important and just like, I don't know how to communicate like that. Well, learn, exercise that muscle. It will affect the rest of your life. If you can take your feelings, take thoughts and feelings and put them into words. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions. That's what communication is. Taking thoughts, feelings, and emotions and putting them into words.

Dr Brooke Jones (24:45)
Mm-hmm.

If

Yes.

Todd Turner (25:05)
And what a great skill set. And I know that people do it, men and women. think men are worse than women. Actually, that's my opinion. I think men are really bad at it.

Dr Brooke Jones (25:05)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's great.

Okay,

well, then this may be another podcast, but I'm going to put a little thing in there because I don't think men are allowed or taught the ability for the full range of emotions that women are allowed to experience growing up. And I think that that that minimization on men

has kept them from being fully who they are, not just warriors in Christ and God fearing or whatever. But think about David. Man, David was like crying and he was praising the Lord or whatever. And how many men do we feel sensing those emotions in that great clarity? I think men have been minimized in the generality just as I see it because you guys should have had more emotion. That's just my...

personal opinion.

Todd Turner (26:04)
I couldn't agree more. I would, I'm to go back to what you said earlier. It's nothing's true in the whole world. It's in the different cultures and our American culture, especially the John Wayne, pull yourself up. You're the provider. You're the strong guy. You're the this. Like we don't, we don't raise Renaissance men anymore. and, and it's a, David wrote poetry and you know, he put, he put thoughts, feelings and emotions into words.

It's like, did it and ⁓ God loved him, but he loves us too. But you know what I mean? Like that is a, that is a great example of a man after God's own heart. And it is okay. And we don't, we, we sort of, minimize its need and we almost make fun of it for, you're too soft or too whatever. And it does, it affects the women because when you have a man who just, once again, he thinks his only job is power and money.

Dr Brooke Jones (26:32)
He sure does.

Yes.

Todd Turner (26:59)
Then you're putting him in a position where then now he's just going to use the power and money to go get what he wants versus talking and communicate. I'm going to tell you a little something here. And my friends that are listening to this, they, I use this all the time. I think this is a rabbit trail, but it applies here. I tell people this all the time and I'm 90 % sure I'm right, but I could be wrong. You can marry a stranger tomorrow, a stranger off the street or an arranged marriage. If three things.

Dr Brooke Jones (27:05)
Hmm.

Todd Turner (27:28)
You both love the Lord. You both know how to communicate and you both know what a covenant is. Because my argument is that communication will get you through all the challenges. And if you know what a covenant is, you're not going to leave when things get hard. Right? And if you're both aiming towards the same place, you'll both end up at the same place. So if you both love the Lord, you both know how to communicate and you know what a covenant is, I think anybody can get married off the street tomorrow. That's how high I think of communication.

Dr Brooke Jones (27:34)
Wow.

Right, right, right.

Todd Turner (27:56)
Because if you can talk and I'm feeling this way and when you do that, I feel like this and when I do that, you feel like that. I didn't know that. Well, then let me quit doing that. Like it's just, it's a healthy practice and yeah, you're right. Maybe we need to dive into that later, but I want to underline that. think you're dead on.

Dr Brooke Jones (28:18)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (28:18)
Okay, so healthy boundaries, exercises to, well, one, to identify how to do healthy boundaries. And then is there ever a mechanism to say, okay, how do you walk away from someone? Like, cause let's say they have the aha moment, not only I want help, but aha, that relationship is toxic to me. I need out of it. How do you help somebody say, I'm not gonna...

Dr Brooke Jones (28:27)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (28:47)
get in anymore, but I'm going to get out of that.

Dr Brooke Jones (28:51)
So ⁓ the most important thing to know about helping anyone in domestic abuse or domestic violence is they are the expert in their own life. That is how you help a person in domestic violence. So I can do all things, right? Whatever. But I never move if the person doesn't move first because they're the expert. No.

Todd Turner (29:18)
You can't tell them what to do. You can't play the part

of their life. It's their life, their ramifications, and you don't want somebody to do something that has tragic or tough events, and they're just sitting there blaming you for putting them in that situation.

Dr Brooke Jones (29:21)
Never.

Yeah, and I think it's more even more serious when we look statistically for domestic violence work just specifically. It's I agree with what you're saying and helping anyone in any crisis, but in domestic violence, 75 % of the deaths of domestic violence happen when they're leaving. So we have to be.

really, really careful, right? When we start working with anyone, if they can't keep our book, if they can't keep our materials, they're not ready for us. And it's sad because they're away from us and we can't get to them, right? But they're isolated. And we know when someone is in domestic violence, it requires isolation and dependency.

Those are the two things that have to happen. So we might lose someone to abuse, that's how I say it. We've lost them to abuse of relationship, because they're gone from us, we can't connect, right? Because it will be dangerous for them to connect. So we have to go through seasons, right? Where we have clients calling us, but we can't write them, or we can't talk to them, because it's dangerous.

So we have to be available, we have to be loving, we have to be open, right? We have to be ready when they're ready. And so like I like to think about care, Todd, is there's ⁓ spheres of care when helping someone. When I met stronger women and I'm helping someone, I think about spheres of care. It's one, two, and three, okay? Sphere one, think about like a sphere one.

It's sphere one, it's emergency. 911, this is a client that's calling me that needs crisis care. need police, they need emergency, they need shelter, right? We're not that solution, but we can help them, right, if they're calling me. The second kind of care that comes to me is called, it's number two, it's called transition. Transition includes legal.

custody, job changes, career, displacement, everything that happens. It's horrible. Transition is horrible, okay? And it goes on for a long time. So they come to us and so we try to help where we can, but again, we're not the right fit for them. When someplace at the end of transition,

Todd Turner (31:54)
safe places to sleep at this placement.

Dr Brooke Jones (32:19)
Okay, we can coordinate them back to care. That's great. But at the end of transition towards the third sphere, which is what I call beyond, it's number three, it's people who need counseling. They've gone to the shelter, but they're done with their time there. They need counseling, but they can't afford it, right? Who has 150 bucks, right? And just that kind of thing. So these are our clients that are out there struggling.

they can come to us for free, right, at no cost, scholarship. They come, they go through a 12-week program, they go to open groups, they can do different things, and they can actually heal so they don't A, have to do it again, hopefully, right? And they can heal from what would happen to them. So we talk about... ⁓

Todd Turner (33:04)
right?

Dr Brooke Jones (33:11)
The awakening we talk about the abuse a little bit, but most of what we do is talk about healing for them We talk about boundaries. We talk about self-esteem. We talk about redefining their life, right? We do those things so they can grow beyond you can't just sit around and talk about the abuse all day You have to grow them from this stage to the next stage and that's where hope is built

Todd Turner (33:18)
That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's 100 % right. And by the way, we are, we're partly ended our next episode that we're going to talk about the detail, but it's okay. Cause we needed that's almost the on-ramp for what we're going to go back to the sexist currency. Cause some people came in there like they heard the word sex and they're really interested. Like, get to that part. But here it is. Let's go back to that because it's also part of the healing to say what part do I own?

Dr Brooke Jones (33:54)
Okay, let's go back to that. Okay.

Todd Turner (34:02)
And you started with it, our culture and their subculture of how some people grew up using the sexist currency idea of saying, this is the asset I have. I am going to use it to manipulate this broken situation I'm in. And you have to realize what you're doing because once again, you're misusing your power and they're misusing theirs.

Dr Brooke Jones (34:03)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Todd Turner (34:32)
Now I'm not saying there are equal sins or whatever. And one is sometimes a cause and effect. I'm not trying to justify, but I am saying it is two broken lenses that people have to say, I want what I want and this is how I'm going to get it. And I want what I want. And here's how I'm going to get it. One is a defense mechanism. One is an offensive mechanism probably, but without the nuance. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (34:54)
Exactly. That's

Todd. You just said it. One's defensive. One's offensive. It's like people are struggling using what they have. It's like an idol. It's coming in front of what God is trying to do. And it's like if we can remove that idol from our lives, we would be in more direct connection with God. Yeah.

Todd Turner (35:16)
That's right. That's right. And so what

you're, I want to put words in your mouth, but what you're also, what you're saying is that some women, yes, mean, sex is a big word and there's a lot of layers to it. So this is just one slice of the pie. There are people who like sex because they have a high sex drive and to heck with it. Let's go do whatever, you know, whatever. Katie barred the door.

Dr Brooke Jones (35:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, sure.

Todd Turner (35:40)
But then there's other people who say, say, ⁓ I've learned to use my beauty and sex to appease and to promote. And sex is currency is that idea that there are women married and not married. It's irrelevant. That that say, I don't enjoy it. I'm not using it for what it's for. I am using it only to manipulate a situation. And if I want a guy and he wants it, then I'm going to give it.

Dr Brooke Jones (35:49)
you

All right.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (36:10)
And I've heard that a thousand times. I've seen it. I've experienced it.

Dr Brooke Jones (36:15)
even say it's more than just I want a guy. I want to feel love.

Todd Turner (36:22)
That's right. And I feel it when, that's right. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (36:23)
would say it more like that.

I want to feel loved so I'm doing this thing so I can feel loved. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Turner (36:31)
100%. Yeah, sometimes

there is the nuance of climbing the ladder or getting what you want. And the other part is like, if that makes him hold me, it goes back to what we said, men use relationships to get sex, women use sex to get relationships. And that's not 100 % global rule, but it does play out a lot. And it's dangerous because none of that is what God intended. In marriage or out.

Dr Brooke Jones (36:37)
Mm-hmm, all the things.

Yes.

Yes, it does.

Mm-mm.

Todd Turner (36:58)
Right? Like none of it's the way it was built for bonding. And it's a selfless bonding where you're there for the other person, not you're a tool to get what I want. And that's the broken part. And so I think men and women are guilty of sex as a currency in this conversation, because especially you're the expert with women that abused, abused women really know how to play that card. And unfortunately they're doing it to their detriment.

Dr Brooke Jones (37:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes.

Todd Turner (37:29)
Because

it's what feels good and feels like a quick win is actually a long-term loss. You're putting yourself in a spiral that you're going deeper and deeper versus boundaries. And I think there's an element ⁓ here of once something becomes habitual, it becomes a new problem because now you're in the habit of it, which is even worse than the original sin because now you can't see another way out of it. You've built your ruts.

Dr Brooke Jones (37:36)
Right. Exactly.

Yes.

Todd Turner (37:58)
and your expectations.

Dr Brooke Jones (38:00)
Agreed. And I would say once again, I have counseled women for a decade or more that when you meet a healthy partner, it will feel boring. It will feel like a relationship that you probably don't want. And yet that is exactly

What you need to be looking for because what you have experienced and what you're seeking with this up and down, up and down is actually an alarm. It's an alarm bell. And unfortunately, our media, our movies, everything about our systems, right? Systemic, right? Tells us that's love. Chemistry, can't make it happen. No, whatever. Romeo and Juliet, all the things.

No, that's not real. That's not what it's supposed to be. Unfortunately, the guy that you're supposed to love or the girl you're supposed to love is just some everyday person who's like in the same lane as you. And all of that flash in the pan is danger. That is your danger. So I tell my girls every day that is your alarm system is not love. It's not infatuation. It's

It's danger. you understand? it, you have to like change the way you think about how you're attracted to another person. When you leave abusive relationships or a divorce or whatever, you have to really change that in your soul. Like I think it's important.

Todd Turner (39:25)
⁓ Now I do.

Oh, I love this. I'm going to preach to the choir on this because I have a friend and she was telling me like, I'm so frustrated guys, you know, what, what you feel like you're in a relationship and it's a one night stand, but it's not your third date, but it's still your one night stand. So how do you third date? It's the third date, right? It's because you don't do it on the first, but the third, sure. But it's the idea is like, why? I said, well, why don't you make people wait a month?

Dr Brooke Jones (39:52)
Mm-hmm.

Third date, what's with that again? Yeah, yes. No third.

Todd Turner (40:13)
or two. goes, why would I do that? They'll leave. And I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's what you want. That's what you want. You want to weed out the guy who will leave if you don't. That's why I tell you to wait.

Dr Brooke Jones (40:18)
Easy. ⁓

What? Okay.

Todd, how did it happen that the third date is the sex date? I don't know. I know we're saying this on the Christian podcast, but I'm saying that's like a universal rule, like through things, and it should never be. Especially, it should be terrible, like, but third date.

Todd Turner (40:37)
It is.

It's a fact.

One feels cheap. Two feels like, now we really got to know each other. third is like, ⁓ let's test this out. Or it's an expectation. Yeah.

Dr Brooke Jones (40:47)
Yeah.

whatever.

And so much could go wrong. Third date is not anywhere into trust. It's not into love. It's not into caring for another human being. I'm, I just, we can't be there in three dates. So I hope our friends who are listening to this are like not being offended by what we're saying, but they're thinking about what they're doing or whatever.

Considering, hey, we're not against sex. That's not what we're saying. What we're saying is, friends, think about it. Just think about it. Be safe about it. Do the right things, you know?

Todd Turner (41:33)
I

totally agree and I'm going to re underline something else you said, because I just think it's so important. I know everybody knows it, but sometimes just when you hear it out loud, it'll click. It's systemic in the fact that like any movie in order for them to sell the movie, they got to throw the love story. I don't care if it's an action movie. You got to throw the love story in. And almost every time there is two people who have a romantic tension.

Dr Brooke Jones (41:42)
Yeah.

For sure. Yeah.

Todd Turner (41:58)
They'll finally sleep either three, four straight to the movie. And at the end they're falling in love and they're going to get married. You're like, you in the, in the store line, you met each other 24 hours ago or you met each other one week ago and Hollywood sells it. ⁓ when you find your person, you'll know that fast and you'll live happily ever after. And I'm like, it's a lie. Like every time I see those things, I roll my eyes. like, that's actually doing a disservice.

Dr Brooke Jones (41:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's not that way.

Todd Turner (42:27)
to people who pretend that there's such thing as a soulmate that sexual chemistry will conquer all. And I feel in love. Like you said something a minute ago and I'm going to go on my soapbox here because it's so right. And that is love is not a feeling. And that feeling of being in love is dangerous. Love is a verb. It's an action. And that is shown over time.

Dr Brooke Jones (42:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (42:55)
and under unique circumstances that you can see love manifesting. And that takes time to get to know someone for it to grow, for it develop, it to be real. And this idea of, I feel like I feel I'm in love. That's just a feeling that actually goes. It comes and goes. And you know, like a marriage, that covenant back to knowing what a covenant is, when you marry someone, a covenant says, I make a promise that when I'm in love with you or out of love with you, sickness or in hell.

Dr Brooke Jones (43:04)
Yes.

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (43:24)
whether I like you or not, I'm staying. I'm staying because I made a covenant with you that says, this is what God said. goes, we're gonna covenant. I'm not saying, I didn't create Adam and Eve, who knows what their situation was. God's like, you're in a covenant marriage. You're in one. By the way, here's how you're gonna get married, have sex. Sex was the covenant. Like it was the covenant. It was the bond between people. That's what God created. And when we're not here, kind of feel in love.

Dr Brooke Jones (43:38)
Right

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (43:53)
use it as a weapon, use it to get what we want, and then we're having it even outside of marriage. It's complicated because that's not the intent of what God had. we're putting our, I'm going back to where I was 30 minutes ago, we're putting our wants and desires over his, and we're using the powers that we have to manipulate people. And it's a dangerous, dangerous place to be. And sex is such a powerful weapon.

Dr Brooke Jones (44:08)
Yeah.

Okay.

Todd Turner (44:23)
and blonder that it's and using it as currency is super dangerous. And I think a lot of people listening, I hope this opens their eyes and say, wow, I guess I really am doing that. I've never thought about it before. And the answer is, ⁓ men do it too. This isn't just a woman thing.

Dr Brooke Jones (44:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right. And you know what, Todd, there's no judgment about our conversation today. Friends listening. Sex is a currency is a little bit of a troubling statement, a little abrupt. But here's the thing. We may all be doing it and you need to evaluate where you are with that. And there's no judgment here. But if you need

to talk to someone, help with someone, whatever, just call us, call Todd, reach out to him because we're here to help, right? And we're here to help.

Todd Turner (45:19)
I love how you said it. And a wise man told me this one, you know, people who will listen to my podcast, they know I'm print and parent. I've embarrassed myself all the time. When I my mouth, I embarrass myself so much less what else, but he was talking to me about a topic like this topic. And he said, I'm not your Holy Spirit. And it was his way to say, I'm not just what you just said. I'm not like, other words, until you're ready or towards God,

Dr Brooke Jones (45:29)
Okay.

Go!

Todd Turner (45:45)
pokes at you. If God pokes at all our sins, we would be on the floor in a fetal position all day, but he's a loving God. He doesn't thumb us to death on everything we do. He hits us. And so when, just like your people that you help, when they have their aha moment, sometimes God forces our aha moments. That's a fair theology. does. And sometimes through our own situations, bad lenses, or just introspective

Dr Brooke Jones (45:52)
it.

Mm-hmm. Yes, for sure.

Todd Turner (46:16)
⁓ musings, we can come and realize, wow, that's broken. That's a broken way to look at that. need to work on that. And so when you're ready, work on it. So we're not, I'm not brow beating you. That's why I said this isn't about theology and when a hundred percent, that's a lot. It's a hundred percent about theology and healthy theology, but it's not here to say the Bible says this, do it. If you don't do it, it's a sin. Turn it, turn off the podcast. No, no, life is nuanced. God created psychology too.

Dr Brooke Jones (46:34)
Yeah.

Yes.

Todd Turner (46:45)
God created our defense mechanisms and trauma response. And you're in the nuances of that with your ministry to say, I'm dealing with women who have been trauma, gone through trauma, have defense mechanisms. And some of those are very unhealthy. Not all defense mechanism people are unhealthy. Some are very healthy. God gave them to us for them. And so they have uses. The problem is some are very unhealthy.

Dr Brooke Jones (46:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Right? Yeah. They're very raw. Yeah.

Todd Turner (47:12)
And when you don't know you're in a bad pattern, you're going to repeat the pattern, which that was one of the questions I want to ask you. So I'm going to lead into that is I've never been in an abusive relationship like that. So, and I don't know anybody who I don't even know about in my proximity if there are they're hiding it, if they are right. So I don't know, but what I don't understand and I need your help on is people who seem to be in abusive relationship, find abusive relationships.

Dr Brooke Jones (47:30)
Mmm.

Todd Turner (47:40)
And I seem to repeat it. And I'm like, I can't, how do you know somebody is physically abusive or emotionally abused? Like why do people who are in them gravitate back to them? Like, what is it about it? Are they, is there an attraction to a type of person or a bad boy? Is it as simple as, that's a bad boy. I like bad boys or like how do women find these jerks? Is that a simple way to say it?

Dr Brooke Jones (48:04)
Thank

Mm-hmm.

I think that's a fair way to say it. ⁓ I've wondered that myself. ⁓ When I personally have been through this, so I'm talking personal experience as well as many women, ⁓ you don't know you're in an abusive relationship. You don't know, okay? You don't know. It's just normal. Like, okay, he loves me.

Todd Turner (48:29)
It's normal. It's a frog in boiling water. It is what it is.

Dr Brooke Jones (48:36)
He is doing all the things he cares for me. He brings me flowers. He does all the sweet things. He tells me he loves me. Same as you, Todd. You did that to your wife. I mean, whatever, right? So, but the difference is that when the abuser person does it, they do it for a reason. They do it for an outcome. They do it differently. So it's like, ⁓

Todd Turner (48:42)
He tells me he loves me. Yeah.

It's a manipulation.

Dr Brooke Jones (49:04)
You don't actually

know, you don't know you're getting into it. You really don't know. It's very ⁓ difficult to know. And that's okay. When you're a victim, so I said to you earlier in the podcast on the previous episode, we talked about I had been raised in a family that was abusive and that I had had abusive relationships in my teens and in my adulthood. Well, given that,

That leaves me to be a person who is like predicted to be abused, right? By people, right? So I was kind of set up to be abused. So you end up getting into the situation and you don't know you're there. You don't know they're abusive because for example, in my case, my husband, have husband that, so do you have a minute for my story? Do you me to tell my story?

Todd Turner (50:02)
Everybody

would love to hear it and I would too.

Dr Brooke Jones (50:05)
Okay, so let me tell you my story. So I was raised in a family that was abusive, unfortunately, from childhood. lot of abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse, all the things. And I ended up as a teen getting into unhealthy relationships, which I knew that was really what I had to bring.

So unfortunately, that's what I had to deal with. Then I got into adulthood and my 18th birthday, my dad moved me out of my house. He said, my legal limit to you is done. So on my 18th birthday, I was out on the street and I had to fend for myself. So I ended up figuring out a few things, but I ended up in a place where my first ⁓ place I came to live,

for homelessness, okay? Remember, I was an 18-year-old teenager, still I consider myself teenager at 18, trying to find a place to live. I ended up at a place. That man became my first husband, okay? So he became my first husband, knocked on the door, brought me in, lived there a couple years, I'm in, we're married, okay? So ⁓ that...

Todd Turner (51:19)
So.

Dr Brooke Jones (51:31)
was not a healthy relationship. It ended up in abuse, all kinds of abuse. But in my mid-twenties, I thought like, you know, that's behind me, right? Like no one's going to know that that happened to me. Yeah. And honestly, they called it Todd batters, battered wife syndrome then.

Todd Turner (51:45)
Yeah, that's a season of life I've already talked about. I'm past.

Okay.

Dr Brooke Jones (51:57)
They didn't call it domestic violence. There wasn't the power and control will. We didn't have the tools then. This is in the 90s. Okay. So I ended up moving quickly forward in my career. Top agent making big money, right? Six figures in the 90s thinking I'm all this and that, right? And I meet this guy who is Mr. Wonderful. So we end up having a

quick romance, which you need. And we eventually he said to me, ⁓ darling, you don't need your career. You don't need your job. I have all the money we need. So what do think I did?

Todd Turner (52:43)
quit and said yes.

Dr Brooke Jones (52:45)
Of course I did. quit my job and said yes. Then he said, honey, we're going to build our love story. We're going to move across the country and we're going to start anew in this whole new place. And I said, what? To my safe, secure place I lived. What do you think I said?

Todd Turner (53:04)
Yeah, let's go live happily ever after and get isolated. Let's go. Yeah, let's go live this love story out.

Dr Brooke Jones (53:06)
Let's go baby, like, of course, let's go baby, let's make the story.

Yeah, of course I'm gonna do that. Like, what do you think? So I'm on it, and so the minute I get into the ⁓ alone, isolated, dependent upon him, abuse starts like I'd never experienced. So it increased, abuse always increases. So started with emotional abuse, and then verbal abuse, and then it was.

got to physical abuse. Quick, a couple years later, he decided that he was gonna, he was upset with me for something and he decided to hold me hostage. So I always say that because my husband, like who loves me, like this is man who vowed to protect me, you know, all the things, he held me hostage. He held me hostage for day and a half.

took my glasses, he took my phone, he broke everything, and I had to escape with a taxi to a hospital to get care for my wounds. So I get there and they're talking to me once I'm cared for or whatever, they're talking to me about domestic violence. And I'm just like, I don't even know what you're talking about, right? Like I don't even know. So I'm so afraid to not

upset him that I won't file police reports. I call him to pick me up, right? I could have left. It was like, who did I call, right?

Todd Turner (54:41)
Oh wow, yeah, you went, you called the guy to say come and get me out of the way.

Dr Brooke Jones (54:47)
and all the girls are like, no, you didn't go!

Todd Turner (54:49)
right.

They're trying to use logic and you're not in a logical space.

Dr Brooke Jones (54:54)
No, and I'm telling you this because I'm a domestic violence expert now But I I wasn't done because I was in it right so I've lived it so I Went home went with him, and I was gonna die like I'm not kidding you I was gonna die soon, so I knew I'm gonna file for divorce so I filed for divorce Okay

Wow, big move, big move, girl. It only pissed him off. I had two years, okay, so we had the state came after him for battery, criminal battery. We had stalking, aggravated stalking, the restraining orders, like he violated so many times. I mean, it was just insane, right? So it was awful, right?

Todd Turner (55:27)
See you

Dr Brooke Jones (55:50)
But I couldn't get away from him because he just wanted to destroy me. eventually it was two years I had to live my life like cash and just like not living. And these women, I didn't have children and the women that have children, I can't imagine, right? Like how do they do it? I mean, and I want to help them so much. So in my own life ended up in 2005 at a mediation.

Todd Turner (56:06)
So it's a harder burden. right.

Dr Brooke Jones (56:20)
Mediation. Okay. So my aunt was there and she said to him, let her go, let her go. And he said, I won't until I destroy her.

Todd Turner (56:31)
He was honest. I give him that. He said the truth.

Dr Brooke Jones (56:34)
Shut up. Yeah.

And so here's the thing. I must look kind of bad Todd because all of a sudden whatever they were like, hey, whatever. And he was like, yeah, I did it. At some point, somehow he was like, yeah, I destroyed her. Like, it's good. So he signed me off and I sat with him and mediator and we worked out the deal and that was free. Free, free, free.

my gosh, that was 2005. Head to Texas, right? Got to Texas, whatever. God did a great work in me. And I ended up in 2016, or in 2006, September 19th, 2006, I heard God say, stronger than espresso. And he said five things. And that became the healing process that survivors use now.

and we're in our fourth edition and we use that process to heal from domestic violence. Right? I didn't know how to heal myself, but God told me and I made a thing and it's like, help people. Right? And that's all of this. Yeah.

Todd Turner (57:43)
Yeah. Yeah. And this is your, your, your, your mission. And it's, it's interesting.

You hear these stories and sometimes the phrase I learned, I think I told you this last time you and I talked, I learned a phrase. People can't talk themselves out of something that didn't talk themselves into. And I love that idea. And so when people are in these situations, it's like, it's sort of like a heroin addict. It's easy for us to say, well, don't do heroin. Look what it's doing to you.

Well, they're not doing it from logic. And so they're not going to undo it from logic. And people in domestic be like, I had a friend and that's when it clicked for me. I had a friend abuse and I was like, I made her call the police and then, but she ended up walking away and not pressing charges. I go, why are you press charges? Well, he'll his job. I'm like, the guy who almost killed you, you give a crud about them. Not the losing. Are you crazy? And it's like, well, yeah, of course.

Dr Brooke Jones (58:13)
Exactly.

Of course! No, of course.

Okay, Todd, do you understand love?

Todd Turner (58:39)
Well, I'm learning low.

Dr Brooke Jones (58:42)
Do you understand? I know, but she loves him. That's what doesn't make sense. Okay, domestic violence doesn't make sense because it's based on love. She loves him.

Todd Turner (58:46)
Yeah, well.

It doesn't.

Well, broke

a distorted view of love. That's my point. Yeah, it's it's it. You're right. It's a it's the thought of this is what love looks like or I love them. Therefore, I'm going to get through it. And it's like, no, no, no, you have a distorted view of what love is, which is why I say we go to the Bible and God tells you what love is. And if that definition of what your boyfriend, spouse, family member is doing, does it fit that definition?

Dr Brooke Jones (59:02)
Exactly, that's what I'm saying, yes.

Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (59:26)
It's not love. It's not love.

Dr Brooke Jones (59:28)
Exactly,

right, exactly. And that's the challenge with people when you're like saying, no, that's not exactly what it's about, right? Yeah.

Todd Turner (59:39)
Wow,

wow, wow. a, what a, well, God, mean, you know, God makes silver linings. uses all things for good. And I know we flippantly say that, but it is true. Which is once again, this divorce podcast, my divorce is horrible and it has tsunami and ripple effects through your life and other people's lives or whatever. But God uses, think our, you know, yours is horrible, way worse than mine. But

God uses that and you definitely are taking your knowledge and experience to know how to talk to somebody that I wouldn't know how to. I would have no clue. And so I'm so happy you're pouring into this.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:00:15)
Yeah, and

I would say to you Todd, any of your listeners that are going through a situation, they might have thought about divorce care or done divorce care, but they may don't have quite what the healing they need. They're looking for something a little bit more. They think abuse is present. They should reach out to us because there's an opportunity for them to take a few steps. It's not going to hurt them.

Todd Turner (1:00:37)
Yeah, yeah, agreed.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:00:43)
It's only gonna help them and it doesn't cost anyone anything and we would love to bring them. Yes. Yes.

Todd Turner (1:00:47)
Yeah, and it's the aha moment is take the step with your aha moment. And even if you're listening to this, you're like,

you know what? I have some of these tendencies or I've seen this in my life. Like I, that's the thing I, I say all the time with this divorce care is I think too many people say to themselves, I was in a bad relationship. That one's over.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:01:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Todd Turner (1:01:11)
I, I, I, I mourned loss and now I'm on with my life. And I'm over here like, you need to reset and figure out why you were in that relationship. What happened? What part do you own? And you need to heal before you go latch on to another broken one because you will, you're, you're the common denominator. And with me, the longer I dated.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:01:16)
Yes, they gotta get help in between. They need help. Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah

Todd Turner (1:01:36)
The more failed relationships, I was like, wait a minute, I'm the common denominator in every one of these. What, what, what's, what, what lenses do I have on that are unhealthy? And I've had to a lot of these. I've false started so many times dating. It's, it's a world I've guaranteed. I own the world record on that of just getting a relationship to find out, that doesn't work. Well, wait a minute. What is that? And I think this with people who were.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:01:44)
Yes, right.

Todd Turner (1:01:58)
In our case of this title of this episode, if you're using sex as currency, if you find a pattern or you think you're even in an abusive... That doesn't have to be physical. Abusive is a big word. There is financial abuse, there is emotional abuse, like you said, spiritual abuse. There's a lot of ways people abuse you. And if you're in an abuse relationship, you don't have to sit in that. You don't.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:02:24)
Exactly. And Todd, I'm going go back to what you said, sex is a currency. So sex is a currency in so many ways in a relationship, whether it was an abusive relationship in the past. But that brings me to my current relationship. Sex is a currency doesn't change. Right. When you learn

survival techniques, learn ways to navigate, whatever, you're learning things that you need and that can bring you into your next relationship. It doesn't always mean that it is, it's all that you need. Like sometimes you have to let your defenses down. Does that make sense? And sometimes I feel like with what we do and abuse survival, we're

always got our defenses up. And sometimes if you ever going to be in a real relationship and really trust someone, you're going to have to let your guard down. And that is so hard for all of my people, right? Vulnerability is the key. And they cannot because they're so afraid. And I think that's important for them moving to a new relationship because they need to know they can trust a new person who they're

trusting their life to, right?

Todd Turner (1:03:49)
Right. Well,

amen, amen, amen. And I'm going to say something you said a minute ago, which is why it takes time because you're a fool to trust early and it takes time to build that trust. And by the time you find that person who's proved they're trustworthy, then you can let the walls down correctly and you have to trust. Because if you go in early and it's this false trust and false love.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:03:56)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah

Todd Turner (1:04:16)
You'll get burned and they'll get burned and y'all will get burned. It burns to the ground. You're a hundred percent right. Oh, wow. That's really, really good. I, I, can go off and talk about that, but I think this is a great stopping point. And next time I'd probably like to go into some of the nuances of, of if somebody heard this and it really spurred them like, is a healthy relationship look like? Am I am an unhealthy relationship? How do I find these patterns? Like we can talk a little bit more about that. The sex is a sub topic. We'll.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:04:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Love to.

Todd Turner (1:04:46)
We'll avoid sex altogether next time and talk literally just about being in unhealthy relationships. How do you spot it? How do you spot the patterns of what you could do? Real quick before we hang up, if somebody heard this and they're like, I'm ready to take a next step. What do you want them to do on your website? What website did they go to? What's their next step? How can you help them?

Dr Brooke Jones (1:04:48)
Yeah.

Thank you so much Todd. Yes, if you want to know more, check us out at strongerwomen.com www.strongerwomen.com. You can also call me on my cell phone, 214-708-7085. We are here to help navigate women who are dealing with domestic violence and finding the next step. So we're here to help. Yeah.

Todd Turner (1:05:35)
I love it.

Absolutely love it. Thank you for taking the time. There's a part two, it just won't be sexual. It'll be relationship related and we'll get to that next week. Thank you so much. Yeah, this is wonderful. Thank you very much.

Dr Brooke Jones (1:05:38)
Yes!

Exactly.

Thanks, Todd. Yeah. Appreciate

you.