Can Strong Christian Women Find Love Again?

The fear of experiencing deep heartbreak again can slowly cause an individual to build thick walls around their heart.

Overview of the divorce issues we are discussing: In this session, we explore the modern cultural emphasis on total independence, asking how it can sometimes get in the way of building authentic, shared vulnerability. We look at the "boss" mentality many women adopt for survival after divorce and how that same energy can create barriers to intimacy. We discuss how to balance personal strength with the willingness to let genuine love and connection back into your life, while keeping your core values intact.

Bullet Points:

• The Independence Paradox: Why using independence as a shield prevents the healthy connection you desire.
• Rediscovering Softness: How to balance authority in your career with vulnerability in your relationships.
• The Danger of Hyper-Criteria: Why your dating checklists might be a way to keep yourself safely isolated.
• Pursuing Purpose Over a Partner: Why being fully committed to your God-given mission is the most magnetic thing you can do.
• Vulnerability is Courage: Taking small, brave steps to trust others and rebuild trust.

Bio:

Jessica Kastner is the co-host of the “Free Failing” podcast for divorced Christian women and author of Hiding from the Kids in My Prayer Closet. She writes regularly for sites like Crosswalk and Propel Women and holds Bible studies with adjudicated teens through Straight Ahead Ministries.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5ngQdnICFggc80wlpcQo5Y?si=SkvFwRfCR5CdxFYrfdGsHA

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/free-failing/id1810889178?i=1000710620514

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Transcript

Todd Turner:
Today's conversation is one I think a lot of women and the men who care about them need to hear. We're talking about the tug of war many divorced women feel between masculine and feminine energy. After divorce, especially when you've had to step up, protect your kids, pay the bills, and make every decision alone, it can be incredibly hard to shift gears into softness, vulnerability, and emotional intimacy when a new relationship comes along. And this independence, while it's powerful, it can sometimes make new relationships more complicated. We're joined by Jessica Kastner, an author and podcaster known for speaking boldly, lovingly, and with refreshing honesty about women's issues, faith, and life after hardship. Together, we're going to unpack what it means to live in both strength and salt. and how women can navigate relationships without giving up who they are designed to be. This one's for every strong woman who ever wondered, how do I let someone in without losing myself? Let's dive in. Jessica, welcome to the show.

Jess:
Thanks so much, Todd. I'm excited to talk. Thanks for having me.

Todd Turner:
Well, let's start with identifying this energy shift post divorce. Did you experience this? What is this? How is this moving from feminine to masculine or masculine and feminine at the same time? Talk about that in your life.

Jess:
Sure. So full disclosure, I am a ultra girly girl operating in her feminine. So I have not encountered this as anyone who's watched me try to clear the gutters or do anything, take out the petroleum tank of the fire table. So I am doing the things I'm forced to do practically because there is no man in the house anymore. I thankfully through the Lord's grace and help have not fallen into this very trending phenomenon, honestly, of women operating in their masculine or maybe taking on more of a masculine energy than they had before when they were married. And I've seen it so much in my current circle of friends and also just as you know, I have a podcast dealing with divorce issues or life after divorce. So I'm very steeped in like, you know, all the algorithms on Instagram, all the social media channels. It's a thing where girl boss, I don't need no man, be your own hero, that kind of thing. That's very relevant. So I think what we have to do first is talk about what we believe it means. What's the definition of operating in your masculine? Because you can, for example, I'm the head of my house now, I pay all the bills, I take out the garbage, but you can do all those things without operating your masculine. So I think when you're operating your masculine as a woman, I think a lot of women are prone to this, especially after divorce, because they've been hurt. A lot of women feel abandoned or let down or betrayed. So they put up a wall and it's a self-protective wall of, never going to let a man in. What do I need a man for? Now I could pay the bills, do all these things, raise my kids. Why would I subject myself to being under a man? And it gets tricky in Christian culture. We'll talk separately in that, but just as a big picture, I think that that's why. And to me, when I see that, because I have people in my life that I would say are doing this right now, operating their masculine, and they're aware of it, and we talk openly about it, I think it's more of a cry for help than anything. So I don't want to like minimize someone's pain or finger point or blame why a woman does that. I think there's real heart reasons. I don't think any woman actually wants to operate in their masculine. It's not fun. So I feel like... I think it's a cry for help and I think it's just a signal that you haven't received healing yet. I think it's just a sign that you're still needing to let the Lord heal you and walk through the post-divorce pain because I feel like I'm going on and on. I don't know if you want to interject because I'll keep going.

Todd Turner:
No, no, no, this is great. I was surprised you're landing here because I was going to try to play devil's advocate and say, I, I, I agree with that. Like every time I go on a dating app, which I'm trying not to do anymore, but I've done it plenty over seven years. And yeah, we all go through the yo-yo of on off, on off. I'm lowly. This is garbage. I'm lowly. Yeah. But, I see, I see this.

Jess:
Name. For now. We'll see when Christmas comes.

Todd Turner:
phenomenon happening all the time where people use the word independent and I'm like, like I don't men don't put we're independent. It's why is the woman putting independent and then it's this attitude of you better fit in my life my world I've created or else I'm not going to let you in. I'm like that feels so unhealthy that I think man, man, I don't think you're healed yet. That's what I thought and I wasn't sure I was right, but that's how I feel.

Jess:
Hmm. you Yeah, because I was thinking about it. It's like, we all know what it's like to army crawl out of divorce, like still on flames. if you really, and this is one of my biggest testimonies post divorce, is I have learned the real meaning of letting God be my refuge. Like I'm stuck in Psalms. I can't get out of it. I just feel like I'm almost scared. It's been so good for my heart. So I'm like, I'm not leaving Psalms. But it's like, God is our refuge. We all hear that. Such a very well-known verse. But it became more of like, a verb than a noun for me, where every day God is my protector, God is my provider, God's my husband now, God's the one I'm going for advice and guidance. I have no one. I'm completely alone. And I never had that before. So it's like, I can't stop talking about it. So I feel like after you come out on a divorce, no matter what the reasons, if you were cheated on, if you were left, even if you were abused, I believe Jesus is the ultimate healer. I believe with enough time and if you let him and if you're vulnerable and have a deeper intimacy with the Lord, he can make you whole and heal and be ready for a future relationship. But I think it takes sometimes a long time. And I think that's hard to do. Like I never learned to sit and cry with the Lord till this most recent divorce. Like I just numb out, you know, blah, blah.

Todd Turner:
Okay. I love this and I honestly, I thought this was going to be the last 10 minutes of our conversation. I'm going to move it right here. You keep going. You keep going to the end because you're giving wise. You have a wise lens on all this. I believe you landed on the answer and the answer is if you don't have this right, you're not going to have this right. I think golly, this is where I got a I have a saying that I stole.

Jess:
You're gonna!

Todd Turner:
thoughts disentangle themselves over the lips and through the fingertips. So I'm about ready to just sort of let something that's very tangled come out. this idea that women who, believe, believe, godly, this is so controversial. I don't want to land on it yet. I don't know. All right. So I feel like women have an easier time being subservient

Jess:
you No censoring here, Todd. This is unyoked living. We don't do that.

Todd Turner:
to Christ's Lordship than sometimes men do because we have the pull it up by our bootstraps American John Wayne attitude. And so sometimes we're looking for like, okay, I got my relationship with God, but I'm just looking for my partner. And it took me a long time to realize, wait a minute, I'm not being subservient to the Lord. Why would I want to lead or be in partnership with somebody who's until I have that correct?

Jess:
Make sense. Mmm, so true. Mmm. Mmm. Totally.

Todd Turner:
Once I sort of got that, then it rolled into this idea of like, okay, two people could get married if three things are true. If you both love the Lord, you both are great communicators and you both know what a covenant is. Right? So

Jess:
I love that. heard you say in another episode, I'm I'm it down because you can't argue with that.

Todd Turner:
I don't think it's arguable, here's where I've landed the play that I thought we're going play it on later. So if you're in a healthy spot with your relationship with Christ and they are well, then why do we put all these criteria on all this other stuff like he's not six foot. he doesn't have hair. I want somebody who has more money or equal money to me.

Jess:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Todd Turner:
Well, why do we put all the other stuff on there too? Doesn't it complicate things?

Jess:
Well, because your heart's not. So I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I have never done that because I've always, I think when you just love Jesus, you want someone like Jesus. Like you're just like, I don't know if he was good looking or tall. I've heard people say he wasn't. So it's like, or what they make, you know, I think there's, I feel like when you want, and this is, can touch on this later because I feel like it really matters the conversation of after divorce, what's the purpose of getting married again? What's your goal? Like, honestly. And so I feel like, especially post-divorce, most of us are done procreating, thank God. Most of us are financially, we're more stable in our career. So usually we're self-sufficient in that way. So shouldn't it just be that you just want a good, amazing heart, like humble, gentleness, kindness? Isn't that what we should both want? So it's like, it sounds so funny. It was like, I don't need a man. Well, what is a man in your eyes? Or if I don't need a wife, like I've been, she's...

Todd Turner:
Yeah Oh, what a great line. What is a man? I don't need a man. Well, then what's your definition of a man?

Jess:
Right. Like, what is that? You don't need a human because even Adam, are we better than Adam? Even God said it's not good for man to be alone. And I'm not putting down, I think there is a, I think marriage is a calling and it's a covenant with the Lord and it's not putting down anyone that it really doesn't feel called to marriage anymore because I don't think they're wounded or broken or anything. But I think in general, most people are better and their highest selves are achieved with another Christ. loving person. I just do. I feel like if you look through the Bible, I mean, there's so much that talks about it, right? So it's like, really the question is, if you don't need a man, well, what's your vision of marriage then? I think it's broken then, right? And I think just because we were talking earlier about being subservient, man is head of household, and when you're in Christian marriages, I think there is another problem that develops where if you were a Christian woman, and you got married, say in your 20s, and then you had kids. A lot of Christian women were stay at home moms. There's a huge homeschooling community in the Christian culture. And I think it's great. I stayed home. I left my job for five years. I was blessed to be able to do it because I wanted to be home with my kids. Then I went back to my career. But a lot of women don't. So you're, for lack of a better word, dependent on your spouse. And then there's the hyper focus, hyper attention focus, I think, in Christian culture in the 90s and 2002. Ephesians is Ephesians 522, like man is the head of the household, wives submit to your husband as you do the Lord. And there's never enough focus as men love your wives as Christ loved the church, right? So I feel like we were raised a lot of friends. So I know this from personal experience. You had to obey your husband. You had to ask him for money. You had no autonomy. You did. You raised your kids however your husband said to raise your kids. Your whole world was supporting and being there. for your husband, which is beautiful and truthful, but I don't think it's the whole. think we are, yes. So I think when that's out of balance, those women kind of out of marriage, now they have autonomy. Now they have their full, they're getting to know themselves, but sometimes for the first time and they can do what they want, quote unquote. So I think it even, that's another element where it's, I have a friend who's terrified. She was in a Christian marriage and went south.

Todd Turner:
It's not balanced. Yeah.

Jess:
And now she's like the thought of like marrying a Christian guy who now she has to listen to after 20 years of I think it just being off balance, off kilter. That's terrifying. So it's like that's a whole nother element in the Christian world.

Todd Turner:
You're 100 % right. And it's sort of like people who have a bad relationship with their father. They sometimes predict that on what that's what God is. I think a lot of women are like, well, I don't like men because I don't like the last one. And it's like, well, that means the next guy is that one. But yeah, I see it. I know, I know women don't want to date Christian men either, but they're good Christians. They're like, I'm sick of Christian men. And it's, it's, I get it. It's so sad.

Jess:
Totally. I It's sad, it's so sad, but it's like, does that really hold up? I feel like you could tell yourself for a little while, but it's like, there's a lot of benefit that comes from being a Christian. Even if it's one, like, I don't know, the thought of

Todd Turner:
Well, Why would you want to be an inkley yolk? Well, I'm going to we're throwing a lot of layers. I'm going to throw one more before we even even pretend to solve anything. But there is a stat. I don't know if you've heard this before, but I did look it up. So this I'm not this is not just a wives tale, but that you know how, you know, men and women score each other one to 10. You know, she's a 10 or whatever. But you almost y'all. I'm throw y'all in a box. right. Women in America, y'all score men lower on average on one to 10. And your average is you have far lower scores than men do. Men score a higher average when we score women. And we have less lower scores. So you guys are brutal, brutal.

Jess:
I can't do it. I'm in Connecticut. So I'll try That's because...

Todd Turner:
And so when you start thinking back to your what's a man, forget being a Christian for a minute. think women look at men and statistics say most of y'all are aiming at the same guys because you're fitting the criteria. he's wealthy, he's tall, he's this, he's that, whatever it is. And y'all score people higher, which means you're throwing people in the trash of who to aim at. yeah.

Jess:
Yes, I see it all the time. I see it all the time. And it's kind of amazing to me. Some of, so I have a lot of friends. I never feel bad. Like no one's going to know who I'm talking about, but it's like, some people are like, they want six, one he has to make this many figures has to be in shape. Can't even have a little belly. Can't drink at all. And I'm like thinking about her life who, you know, she's a true who I love, but it's like, wow, like

Todd Turner:
Yeah.

Jess:
feel like I have the opposite where I've almost had to raise my standards. feel like I've dealt with self-worth and value and insecurity. So I'm always like, I wish I had a tinge of that through my life. Because I was like, whatever. God is, look at him. God will fix him. so I don't know why that is. Sometimes I'm like, is it a false self-protection where you're just like, that's your reason you can't find anyone? Or that's why you're afraid of dating someone is because your standards are so high because you're God's princess. If that's interesting, and I don't have an answer of why they do that, but I see it for sure.

Todd Turner:
Yeah. So that's a great, that's a great point. It could be a little bit of, it gives me an excuse or it just could be the article I read assumed this. That is women feel more judged with their beauty and whatever. And they're just reflecting that back on the other side. Like, well, we're going to be judged. I'm going to start judging you back as well. Yeah.

Jess:
Totally. could see that. I definitely could see that