Dating After Divorce: Why We Swipe When We're Not Ready

You deleted the apps. Then downloaded them again.

You say you’re waiting on God… but also hoping He sends someone cute. 😅
 If dating after divorce feels like a tug-of-war between loneliness and hope—you’re not alone.

In this bold, honest, and hilariously relatable episode, Todd Turner is joined by Texas realtor Denise Milliken to unpack:

• Why “getting back out there” might not mean you’re ready
• The actual difference between being lonely and being open
• Mistakes we make when dating too soon
• And why Christian women need more than just good advice—they need truth, grace, and courage

💔 This one’s raw. Real. And full of the stuff no one says out loud.

#ChristianDivorce #DatingAfterDivorce #UnYokedPodcast #FaithBasedHealing #DivorceSupport #ChristianWomen

Transcript

Todd Turner (00:03)
Let's be honest, sometimes dating after divorce isn't about readiness, it's about restlessness. We're lonely, we're curious, and deep down, we want to feel wanted again. But how do we know if we're really ready or just looking for a distraction? Today, I've got my good friend Denise back with me, and we're going to talk about the messy, funny, and sometimes painful reality of dating after divorce from both a male and female perspective.

Denise, thank you for taking time out of your day to have this conversation.

Denise (00:35)
Thank you, thank you, let's get messy.

Todd Turner (00:38)
Well, it's going to be messy. All right. I feel like I need to say something right off the bat. And that is I have been asked a hundred times to do a podcast about dating. And I did not want this divorce podcast to turn into a dating podcast. I feel like there's a million of those out there and everybody's got their funny stories and you know, y'all girls all go off and talk about what happened to you and us guys go off. We talk about what happens to us. There's a thousand podcasts about that.

So I don't want to just necessarily stay with that. I've always wanted to have a lens of being a ⁓ Christian and how that affects the milestones after divorce. But I got to be honest, sometimes it's hard to put theology on top of this nonsense. Like it is really hard to date at our age. And I'm trying to understand, and this is what I want us to do today. I want us to talk about

What part is gender differences? What part is society cultural differences? And what part is age of just just being empty nesters and older and wiser? Like, where? Why is this thing so hard? What's going on? I mean, do you even have a clue of why it's hard? Or is it just this is the way it is? There's been men and women like how do you categorize them in your brain? All the struggles you get?

How would they?

Denise (02:08)
I, you know, it's funny as you were saying that I'm thinking if anybody's tuning in on how to do it right, probably not the podcast. Yeah, we're like, we're like, let's, you know, do as I say, not as I do, because I don't know if we have mastered it. And yeah, I don't, I think all of the things you said, I think age and I feel it was much more.

Todd Turner (02:16)
Move on, move on.

Denise (02:36)
easy when I was in my 20s than when I've been in my 50s.

Todd Turner (02:41)
Okay, well, let's, we got to start somewhere. So let's just start with the beginning. So for most people listening, you were divorced and you take some time because we're all supposed to take some time and that's wise. I'm not saying it's not, but then you think, okay, I think I'm ready. Now that's a weird word because are you really ready or is it restless? Meaning I don't want to sit at home anymore. I'm tired of, I'm tired of my life being in shambles.

An idea of having fun, the idea of having someone feels like it's worth this effort. And then we all think, well, I don't want to date somebody from work. I don't want to wait somewhere from church. I think I'm good on the apps. So do you remember your moment where you're like, okay, I think I'm going to give this thing a shot and I'm going to get on it.

Denise (03:34)
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally remember my first. And I think when you first jump in, it's fun and, you know, it's new. You're probably not as picky. And, you know, if you're getting this second time, it's kind of reminding you and reliving maybe when you were, you know, single once before. And, you know, just figuring out the apps. I didn't know there were people that

ghosted, didn't know. You just don't, you don't know that stuff. So I know as a female, when you're first on the apps, all of a sudden you get all these likes, hearts, whatever they are, whatever dings. of course, maybe men feel this too, but as a woman it was just like, oh wow, what have I been missing? And this is great. And so it's that affirmation.

you know, that morphin, you know, of being that. And then you realize they're bozos or I don't know. I mean, and I shouldn't say that, but there's just, there's just, ⁓ yeah. When you get a ding and it's a hey, you know, or, that's as far as it goes. It's just like, ⁓ Lord, this is going to take effort.

Todd Turner (04:33)
It is. Yeah.

bozos out there. Yeah, and both

So yeah,

so yeah, let's talk about that for a second. There is something to the original starting of dating that you're like, oh, well, there are people out here who like me. I look, you know, I'm photogenic enough and I wrote a witty enough bio that people must like me. So there's that. I think some people stay in that mode.

Literally for years and years and years and years and years, they just love the attention. They love the game. They love playing it, but they're really not trying to date. And I think that's one of our big takeaways, or at least mine is the apps are so toxic. I'm going to say worthless. It's not true. That's not worth it because people have met each other on the apps, but there is such

I don't know what an epidemic of people playing on the apps, using it as entertainment. It's just one of the apps on your phone. You engage. You're not really serious. You're not. That's where I'm frustrated. I got to be honest. I am frustrated of people saying they want a relationship. That's what's in their bio. And then you try to have one. Now they don't. Now they don't. I feel like now this is where we're allowed

Denise, you can generalize about men and I'm going to generalize about women. Everything I'm saying is not true and I know that, but I want you to play defense where you want and you can play offense where you want. But I feel like so many women say they want a man and literally what you're really saying is I want to interview you to see if you fit in my life. And if I don't like something about you, I'm moving on and you all's defense levels are so high. They're

unrealistic because nobody's perfect. And there's something about an app that makes you just start judging people. ⁓ no, too short, too tall, too this, too that. ⁓ he didn't text the right words. well, he should have said this on Thursday because we were going out on Saturday. I mean, y'all microanalyze every little thing that we do so much. You're not in any relationships. And then we get exhausted by it.

And then we get up, then we all get off the app. They're like, I'm tired of playing this game. And I've talked to so many men are tired of pushing the rope uphill. And then I think that's why you all, you all see our lack of effort. Cause we're like after a hundred mistakes, we just give up trying to it. that make sense?

Denise (07:38)
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I agree with all of that. And I mean, I feel like it's on the woman's side as well. Well, I have to say, I do see a lot more where you probably see women or, you know, I'm looking for a relationship on the female side. We see a lot of I'm looking for casual, you know, and I'm I don't know, maybe I'm on the wrong app, you know.

Todd Turner (08:06)
Well, but you

and I've had this conversation. I think casual means something to you that it doesn't necessarily mean to you. It's a red flag. Oh, they're casual. They don't, they're just casual. think, okay, let's, let's stop right here for a second. Cause I want to really get down into this. This goes back. Okay. I'm going to pick on you a little bit. This goes back on the female over analyzing little nuances.

Denise (08:08)
No.

Mm.

Todd Turner (08:36)
And it's like, there are I've tried to jump in the deep end with a couple people. Like I've just tried to say, I want a real relation. I'm jumping in. They fail. They fail because of the pressure on it of like, are we a match or not? So I put casual before casual means I want to be friends first. I want to keep it light. And we're going to see if we build a relationship or not. So I put casual.

And then people like you get on there like, casual, this guy's not serious. Well, no, hell, I am serious. I'm just, I've tried it this way. I've tried it this way. And so how do we win? How do we win? Then we just put the word casual and all of sudden to half of you, that means, ⁓ we're not serious about anything. That's not true.

Denise (09:16)
I'll put cash.

I don't think, Lace, again, my perspective is I think all of it is going into we're going to be casual. I'm obviously not going, hey, how much do you make? Where are your parents? What's your background? Those type of things. So the first couple of meetings are going to be casual. But when I read casual or just wanna friend, I don't even know what some of the words are and things like that. ⁓

I just know I don't I have friends and I'm not on this looking for a friend. ⁓ If a friend comes out of it, great. If we don't match, if things like that, but ⁓ I hear or see casual as I want three a week or, you know, I, you know, all of those.

Todd Turner (10:20)
I'm not really serious, but we can

hang out when we hang out. And it is what it is.

Denise (10:24)
Yeah, it's

casual to me means I'm and I'm even okay with hey, if you you know, you obviously like we're not serious day two. So I don't care if you have multiple dates kind of thing. But if they're in the fact of hey, I'm on this for casual encounters. I think there's. Yeah. ⁓

Todd Turner (10:40)
Right.

Well, that's a different story. think, think that one,

I just think even just the setting of casual runs people off and that drives me crazy. And then it's really funny. This is why I despise apps is then the conversation. I'd rather be hitting the shin with a hammer then. Well, what are you looking for on this app? ⁓ my gosh. Like, well, I don't know. I might not have to meet somebody like, come on.

Denise (11:16)
days from

your notes. Yeah, it's like, but it's asked all the time. So I almost feel like, oh, hold on, let me go to my notes. Let me cut the days. I'm looking or, you know, I want to go the same thing as you are. You know, do you think I'm looking for? I mean, you know, I don't want to, I want somebody to go to the concert with. I want somebody to enjoy, you know, the local festival. mean, yeah, I don't know. I, I, guess.

Todd Turner (11:23)
Right.

Right, I would hope that's why we're on it. Yeah.

Denise (11:45)
When other women put that, like, are you expecting, you know, what are you looking for? Do they want the man to go, I'd like to be married within two years. And I would like, know,

Todd Turner (11:56)
What do you want us to say? And that's a thing

too, back to this casual thing as a guy. I don't know anybody, whether I wrote casual, want to get married tomorrow, that doesn't think I'm sitting there paying for the first time we meet. It's like, so we're casual, but yet I'm in this, I'm supposed to go by the rules of courting, but you're ⁓ even, are like, ⁓ trust me. I know so many women are like, I want to be friends first.

I want to grow a relationship and you know, authentic. Okay, great. Well, then where's your purse on this deal? Why am I paying and treating this like I'm the man pursuing and you're saying, this is going to be a long journey. Just get to know each other for the next year before what I mean, that didn't even make sense. It's not fair. I'm in a mood today.

Denise (12:46)
We are going to disagree on that one again. I think, and maybe I'm old school on that, but I think you set the tone for what you're looking for. And so I feel it is a gentleman's responsibility, not responsibility. I know I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get.

Todd Turner (13:10)
What word are you looking for there? Love to know.

Denise (13:12)
I know. And it was even when I told my boys when they started dating, don't, if you ask somebody out, be prepared to pay. And I, so, okay, with that, with the female male role thing, I don't ask a man out. So,

Like even if the conversation's great or everything like that, I want him to be the first one. So maybe that is an age, you know, old fashioned, however you want to say it. I just don't think it's appropriate for me to say, hey, would you like to have dinner? I guess if I did, maybe it would be expected for me to pay.

Todd Turner (13:58)
Yeah, think, yeah, I think that we've, we've shifted off the track of where I was going because if you're saying a date, I'm all for traditional of a man and a woman. I'm talking about building a relationship, even as friends. Like what, how, what's the nuance of that? It's like you and I've sort of had this discussion before. If somebody's your friend, if I got to pay for every female in my life, every time I go out, I'll quit going out because that's not fair.

Denise (14:22)
No, I get that. No,

you're right. You're right. And I, I razz you about that with us just because do I expect it? No, a hundred percent. No. I mean, if we're heading to, you know, the fair or, ⁓ I'm trying to think of things that we've done, the circus or go to a concert or something like that. And we are friends. No way, no how I'm looking at it. It's just, you're

Todd Turner (14:31)
Right.

Denise (14:51)
A girl, my girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Turner (14:52)
Right. Well that, well that's different because we're, friends. I think we're talking

about dating love work when you're, when you're meet somebody and it's, know, I think it's fair. Maybe it's, maybe it's a bad assumption. think it's fair to say, I, nobody, well, golly, that's not true. A person of sound mind would want to be really good friends with the person they married. Like

Right? I guess some people will just want a wife or they want a husband, but to me, I want a friend. I want a friend who I'm romantically attracted to, who I want to spend the rest of my life with. I want to be a friend. it's dating is this goofiest thing where we're like, we decided whether or not you fit all the criteria. And then we see we grow a friendship and it's like, wait a minute. It feels backwards. Like, shouldn't you grow a friendship and then sort of fall in love or even literally make a covenant?

That's what marriage is, a covenant. It's just saying, we're not perfect. You're a woman. I'm a man where you're imperfect. I'm imperfect. We're making a covenant before God to be married. That's all. That's all what a marriage is. It doesn't say it's not Disney of two people, soul matching, and we live happily ever after. That's, that's insanity. That does not happen. It's not a real thing. It's, it's bogus, but

If you're supposed to be friends first, then where does courting come in versus being friends? Like, I don't understand how it's even, like you said, you and I aren't really good at this. I don't even know how it's supposed to work. I've tried it every which way to be friends, to jump in the deep end, to see, and I get exhausted by it. I'm exhausted. I mean, I am about ready to Google how to become a monk.

What do have to do? When do I shave my head and where am I get to live? Like I am just, I'm at my end with this thing.

Help me, from the love of goodness, help me.

Denise (17:01)
Help me, help me. No, I mean, yeah, 100%. And as more time goes by, we just get very, something that has just kind of been, you know, okay, we're okay with being single and doing things like that. What's really been kind of gnawing at me though is what do single people do when they're older?

and they get sick. Meaning like terminal sick or something like that. there's the couple friends that I see that go through that type of difficultness ⁓ have been with partners. And it's just made me kind of look at it as what would I do if gosh forbid something like that happened? Like who would I have that would be taking me to my things? mean,

So I don't know who to chase after to watch that kind of thing to see how that unfolds. I guess your children. So be nice to your children.

Todd Turner (18:09)
Yeah, but not not everybody has

children. Not everybody has children that live near them. And yeah, it's really I mean, I think you're hitting you're hitting on the dilemma. The dilemma is life is better with a partner. I think God wired us that way. I think that's true. Now, theologically, Paul also in the New Testament talks about how great it is to be single because you want to put anything above your relationship with Christ and your service to him. So

That's true too. to the Bible literally wish I'm not using the word wishy washy. It speaks out of both sides of the mouth. You know, man, it's not good for you to be alone and Paul's like, yeah, but it's really good for you to be alone. Like, hello, which one is it? So I really do believe that life, this world is broken world is easier with a partner. And then there's just the

soul satisfaction of being loved and somebody cherishing you and wanting to pour into you. And I think that's why I'm in a bad mood today about this because there are people I've literally tried to pour into. They talk the talk. They talk the talk. Yeah. I really want to pour into this relationship. I want to be in it. And then anything comes up and it's like, ⁓

and you know, got this thing. I changed my mind. It's like, well, that's not what a covenant is. So it's like, it's almost like the only way to make it work is to get married. Just get married and then make yourself work through the hard stuff because the dating part is nonsensical. I don't even know how to do it. And I don't know how to build a relationship. And I am at my wits end about it because it's so frustrating to try to honestly

There are some women out there and all men are this way. There are men out there like me who have literally tried to pour into someone and have a mindset of I will do whatever it takes to make this relationship work. I'm gonna make a blanket statement and y'all women micro analyze something so nonsensical to get out of it. And you're like, I can't win. I can't win.

And I've had, I've probably had five to six, five, six, seven relationships that I honestly went in there saying, if this person puts in the effort I put in back, then I will do what it takes to make this work. I'm 0 for 7 Denise. I'm 0 for, and they're all different reasons. There's not, there's not one reason that's, I can literally tell you every reason that every relationship ended and they're all

Denise (20:50)
you

Todd Turner (21:01)
Almost all common.

Denise (21:04)
But what I feel like if you interviewed them, what is their take on it? You know, did you feel you were all in and they didn't or they, you know, like if you asked them, did they go, you know, he wasn't good.

Todd Turner (21:21)
I've never been

first of all, have to the other problem. I have to take them at their word, right? If they want to say one thing to believe another, I can't help you. But well, no, no, no, because then I'd call bull. ⁓ I everyone I'm because I mean, by the time I'm in that kind of relationship, obviously I'm having an adult conversation. So I feel like I've got an adult reason back.

Denise (21:32)
Why? Because they go, it was all me.

Cause then they're lost.

Todd Turner (21:49)
And every one of them, there was a conversation of the why and none of them are what you're implying. And that is what he really wasn't like. No one's ever told me, well, you didn't or you know what I mean? Like they're all well now that you know, I'm going to do it because I know this girl's out listening. I broke up a relationship that I really wanted to pour into because she was in ministry and she served the African-American community. And she told me it's because you're not black.

because I really thought I was going to date a black guy and that's what I my heart is and the more I thought about it. I just don't see I never saw myself date in a white guy. I'm like, well, then why did you swap on me? Why have we spent months in a relationship for that to be your answer like that is the most comical thing I've ever heard night. So all seven didn't tell me that there's no common thread. There's no common thread. There was a lot thought I was ready, but I wasn't.

You know, there was, um, we're, this is moving too fast. need a moment there. You know, I could go, I don't, I, some of them listen, so I gotta be careful what I say, but there is no common denominator at all. I'm still friends with some other ones. I'm not. And I've just like, yeah, like, I'm going to say this to you. Can I say this on my date? So I think I've said this on the podcast. I am a.

huge believer that anybody could get married tomorrow. You and I can get married tomorrow. If three things happen, if we both love the Lord, we both are excellent communicators and we both know what a covenant is. I believe those three things cover almost every problem because we both love the Lord. That implies a lot that implies it's going to affect your decision-making. It's going to affect who you are as a

person that that covers a lot being a great communicator covers a whole lot because Now you know how to communicate you can talk about when you do this I'm triggered with this and you know Let's go to a counselor and blah blah blah and then no one in covenant is saying I'm not gonna quit when things get hard Because I'm in a covenant. It's not well. We just don't love each other anymore That doesn't count because you know what a covenant is so those three things so I've literally Started my relationship with those

Trump cards saying, do you agree to these things? yeah, I agree, I totally believe you. And then it's, know, whatever it is, that's the thing that they throw out as their reason. And you're like, you're not serious about those three things then.

Denise (24:32)
You know, somebody once told me to add to those three things and I thought this was pretty powerful. And I think it was something that I read and you know, why have you been married or what made it work for 50 years or whatever it was? And they said, we're two amazing forgivers. Look at the balloons that went up.

Todd Turner (24:53)
Hmm.

Denise (24:56)
What was that? And

I that was pretty dang powerful if you think about it because we're all, we all fall short. We all, you know, right now or this week I'm not, you know, pouring into him or, you know, short or sassy or whatever because I've got this on my plate or whatever. And that person has to learn, not learn.

Todd Turner (25:16)
Yeah.

Denise (25:21)
be forgiving and have show grace and is same and vice versa. There's going to be days that that person's not on and things like that. So that's something to add to that list is for you.

Todd Turner (25:31)
Well, no, it's a great

nuance. I would say it's covered by you love the Lord because you love the Lord. You keep his commandments. He tells you what love is. And he says, love is you don't remember trespasses. Grace is love. So if you love the Lord, you therefore love your neighbor. You therefore love your wife. You love your spouse. And by loving them, you would give them grace. You would forgive. would all the things you're talking about. There's all the nuances there.

But to me it's covered by if you truly love the Lord, then you can't be angry at your spouse. You can't, you know, belittle her. You can't treat her ⁓ like a human. You know what I mean? Like you can't treat her like you would treat just anybody. They're, they're you. That's you on the other side. That's God's child and you treat them well and you, I don't know, you empathize with them. You give them grace. love them.

You love God, you love people. There's no other way around it.

Denise (26:34)
that tank I feel has to be greater for your partner because ⁓ I know with whatever's going on, I can be super sweet to neighbor, hey, how's it going? And yes, happy to help, but then come in, slam the door and crank it. It's one of those where you're having a horrible argument or. ⁓

frustrated about some bad thing and then answer the phone. Hello, know, you know, it's like we we we turn off or Yeah, how you what you give to everyone else? by doing that Christian role of you know showing love but then remembering to do it and to be that forgiveness when the one that you can show your true colors with

Todd Turner (27:06)
Right. We can play the game.

Boy, I think you hit on something that's super important. And this goes why, this goes into why time is so important. It is so easy for us to play the game. We can go to work and, yeah, how you doing? And then we shut that door and then you're cussing at the guy in front of you in the traffic. You know, there's the public persona. That's the apps. Here's my best picture. Here's my wittiest line. Here's me wearing my best dress.

Denise (27:33)
all the time.

Todd Turner (28:01)
And I curled my hair for you. And then there's the about the two to three month mark where the walls come down and you start really getting their real feelings. Cause now you're in the car with them and they're cussing out the guy in front of you and you're like, okay. There it is. Now here's the real you, not the fake you. And it takes time to get to that. And so that's why, you know, it's wisely, you have to date somebody for a little while because people can fake it. And I'm not even sure they're trying to fake it. I think.

You just said it. We all naturally know how to play the social game. And so you play it and we all play the church game on Sunday mornings, which is why I despise not despise church. Don't take that out of context. I despise a church culture that many churches have of let's all put on our best face on Sunday morning. Let's how you doing? I'm doing great.

Hold on, your wife have cancer and then you just lose your job and aren't you like way overweight and depressed? but you're fine. Okay, my bad. No, you're not fine. Say it. Say it. Be real people. Be real. It drives me crazy and we all just play the game. And I think that's the thing with with with the dating. We're playing the game and I'm like, I guess I'm I'm I still don't want to play the game Denise. I just want to be who I am.

I want somebody who sees me and is committed to saying, I'm going to take you warts and all the good and the bad instead of, we haven't gotten to this yet. In my mind with the women, it's the boss culture. It's like, well, I'm my own person. I'm whatever. And I've created this great life for myself and you better fit in and you better, Hey, I'd rather be alone. And I'm like, okay, well then I'm going to quit trying. I'm tired of trying to break that dang wall down in the yard.

Denise (29:55)
I know.

remember, I think a lot of that is them saying it to remind themselves. Divorces shook ⁓ a lot of women that maybe put them in a role that they weren't in prior to. So if everybody gets married, let's say in their 20s, is what's typical or our generation, that's what you did. You either went to school and then you got married and then you found yourself either

you know, doing your job or ⁓ raising children or things like that. When divorce happens, ⁓ there's that separation of having to find themselves. And I find men identify a lot with who, ⁓ what they do. And women more identify with family and you know, those type of things is, it explains who they are.

And so when that financial aspect is pulled, know, those that are saying, I'm independent, they may have just recently found their feeding, their footing in that. And they're saying it almost, like an affirmation that they're being told. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.

Todd Turner (31:15)
It's an after it's a morning affirmation. comes out of like, I don't need

a man. I'm fine. It's like, well, no, you don't need one. None of us need anything, but do you want one? Do you want one? Do you want somebody who cares about your day? Does that when you, to your point, when you get sick, you want somebody there at the hospital? Like, do you want somebody in your life when you're going to have to give up some of that independence, you're going to have to give up.

some of those rules that you and your friends create while you're drinking wine about. If he does, if he does, if he invited you for coffee for the first date, well then he must not really want to put in any effort. Tell that woman to shut up. her to shut up. That is not good advice.

Denise (32:00)
feel like you know it's almost where's that middle that doesn't make the men run the other way so you don't men don't want to hear you know I don't need a man I'm independent on this but you don't want to hear I'm looking for somebody I want to go back to my past life I want somebody you know that is going to raise my children or is gonna play that role and provide for me so there's that middle

Todd Turner (32:30)
That's fair. That is a fair analysis of if you just lay down and say, I'm just looking for a man to support me and be the head of the house. And I just want to come do this traditional role that I'll be like, well, that sounds like you're just wanting, you know, I get it. I get it. And so where, where, and I think that goes back to what we were ever started. Like there is a difference of dating in your fifties when you're sort of empty nest. You, you, you,

Denise (32:30)
I'm looking for partner, you know?

Todd Turner (32:58)
You are trying to figure out who you are. have all the free time in the world to do whatever it is you want to do. And then you're like, well, how, do I blend some into this life? And I, I mean, from my experiences and I've only been single in my forties and fifties, it's so much harder in my fifties than it was in the forties, forties. You don't even have these conversations. And to your point in the twenties and thirties, when you're in child rearing years, you have a whole nother mindset up over like, you've got kids. I've got kids. Let's blend them together and we'll figure this out.

emptiness dating is another animal that you're like, okay, I'm at a point now. mean, I, I'm closer to 60 than I am 40s. And I'm at a point now where I'm like, guess by the time I reach my 60s, I'm not married. I'll just be single. I'll just be single. All right. So I'm going to, I'm going to throw something out. You know, for my Christian friends that are listening, which I'm assuming most everybody's a Christian listening, you're not all my friends. My

Friends are gonna think horrible of me. And you are too. But I'm gonna have a transparent moment, okay? Because I didn't have it in my marriage.

Denise (34:06)
I'm myself.

Okay.

Todd Turner (34:17)
I'm a great communicator and I want to communicate with people and I want all the things that go with great communication. Like I love deep theological talks and I love stupid dad jokes and I love cussing and I love it all. Like I love the English language.

I've literally thought I should just go to Thailand and find a wife who just wants to be loved and has a culture of just servitude and I'll have a culture of protection and we'll just agree that you play your role, I'll play mine and at least I'll have somebody who's by my side who wants to support me and I'll give up that nuance of culturally.

Blending with somebody who probably can talk theology with me in the way I want just because I think I could pull that off I literally think that is easier and I'd probably regret it ten years down the road but the longer I push rope uphill trying to find my person the more I Understand why people do that the mail or brought the mail order bride. I literally can grasp the concept now. Does that even sound crazy?

I mean, I guess y'all don't do that like we do because men do go and get people and it's, think sometimes the stigma as well. Well, yeah, you're a 50 year old man. You're just going to look for a 20 year old wife from the Philippines. No, no, I'm being dead serious. Like somebody who just like, oh yeah, a relationship it's in their culture. You're, you're my man. I'm your woman and we're going to get married and I'm going to do the roles of a woman. You're into the roles of a man. We'll get along great.

Denise (35:59)
Do you really feel like you even need to go to the Philippines? I mean, you could find, you don't think you could find that on the apps?

Todd Turner (36:05)
Where?

Tell me. Tell me. I don't think it's in our culture. I don't think it's, I don't even know where to begin because you swipe, swipe, swipe.

Denise (36:13)
Americans

are too opinionated. yeah, mean, but if it's 60, you went and did that. I still don't think that that's giving you what it is that you're wanting to have somebody that has the intelligent conversations and all of this. Not, yeah.

Todd Turner (36:34)
I agree. why not? Why not? Denise?

Why not get those from my friends? You know what I mean? Why not just take my wife and barely speaking English with me? I'm all about with my friends and we all just hang out and we I do what what what do I have to I think part of this goes back to what is the ideal wife? What does she have to be the best at everything? Like maybe she's just not a great communicator, but she loves me like that. You know,

Sort of like your thing is, you who's going be with me when I'm sick? I, my big thing I want is somebody to care. I just want somebody to care. How are you doing? Does your back need scratched? Are you hungry, babe? Can I get you anything to eat? Wow. Good job. I noticed you did a really great thing at work today. Those are all the things I want. And, and I'm sorry, I'm in a mood and I'm going to regret all this I'm saying today, but the

the boss bitch, you know what I mean? That little term of I'm a boss bitch out there. I don't want, that's not who I want as my partner. This whole hustle culture, there's a difference between having to survive. That's a different story to these. You're putting a situation after survive, but there's a culture out here. Like I'm going to go out here and be my best version of myself and make it as much money as I can and whatever. And I'm going to date a guy who's like me. Cause I see that in tons.

of profiles, tons of like, want somebody who ⁓ matches my energy. I want somebody who ⁓ is committed to success and all the things that I'm like, well, yeah, I guess I have those passions too, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for that. And if that's what y'all want, there's a hundred guys out there. Go get them. Go get them. But I'm exhausted with it, Denise. I just am.

Sorry.

Denise (38:35)
You are in a mood. You are in a mood. You are in a mood. You are.

Todd Turner (38:37)
I'm in a mood.

It's just,

it's insanity to me how hard it is for two people to find each other. And I realized that I, like us all, we have these preconceived notions of what we're looking for. And I, one of my... ⁓

criteria as of now, I just contradicted it. So I'm fixing to swing to the other side is theology. I know some really great women that I jive with really well. Like we get in the gang, our comedies the same or, know, our sense of humor is the same. Our style, we look good together, all the things, but we don't have a theology match. And it's like, I just don't know how to, I don't know what to do with that.

I really struggled with the what like, like what spiritual level somebody has to be on to be my mate. And that's my one of my things is I think I probably over require people to be really sophisticated in their theology before I will allow them in my life. And that's probably one.

I don't know what to do with that because I don't know how to give it up because my theological training forces me to consider certain things really important. And if it's not there, which, you know, back to, I'm going to criticize the apps. There's nothing on the apps that lets me know how theologically sound somebody is until I spend time with them. And then it's like, ⁓ yeah, okay. I can tell not a match.

Denise (40:24)
Yeah, yeah. You know, and I was thinking of that too, that we're sitting here going, you know, why isn't that person out there and where do we find that person and all of these other things? And I think it just comes back to what if we're not the person, you know what I mean? Like, what do we have to change? So we're more.

appealing. I don't know. mean, I don't want to go, you know, maybe I need to learn more theology so that I'm more appealing to, I don't want to change who I am with those type of things. But for some who have been on the apps and it worked and there was that chemistry, maybe they were at a right point in their life that they were able to give to that person.

what that person needed and maybe, I mean, we feel like we're healed. We feel like we're trucking down, but perhaps we're not.

Todd Turner (41:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, interesting. I was trying to keep this out of the theological thing today, but since God's involved in it all, it's hard to do that. I feel like one of the things you all women have a dilemma with is if you love the Lord and know your Bible, how could you mess your life with a man who's not going to be a good spiritual leader?

Denise (41:59)
Mm.

Todd Turner (42:00)
I forget even leader just abandon walks with God. And in a way you should be testing whether they are or they're not. And so to me, y'all have the easiest throw away. It's easy. You're like, ⁓ I don't see any fruits in your life. Men say Christian and then everything they talk to you about has nothing to do with the Lord has nothing to do with changing their behavior. It has nothing to do with the filter that they put on everything that they did.

Denise (42:21)
is not.

Todd Turner (42:30)
So to me, y'all have a blessing and a curse. You have a quick, ⁓ that's not my guy. And the curse is you run through people left and right because you're like, I can't find my guy who loves the Lord. And on my side, I guess sometimes I over criteria, well, do they love the Lord? But man, you listen to Joel Olsteen. my God, I can't even believe it.

You know what I mean? So like I, I, their spiritual level is what I'm judging. And I'm like, well, maybe if they love the Lord, so I've talked to my counselor about it. where do you draw the line? Because not everybody has a deep, a deep knowledge of the Bible. Not everybody has all the blessings that I've been blessed with of what I know. And so I, I judge them, but I guess I should just look for somebody who's willing to listen.

loves the Lord and holds their theology loose because I can tell you all day long what I believe and why I believe it, but I still hold it loose because I'm willing to listen to other sides of this. Like, tell me, tell me why, you you grew up church Christ. Talk, tell me about that. Not well, you know, the Bible says this is like, okay, well now you're not willing to listen because you're just going to drop me some verses that you were taught when you were a kid, you know? So it just makes me want to throw up.

But yeah, felt like you let's go back to that. So like, how do you I mean, I'm assuming you've held your line. I'm assuming you have it because sometimes you just get tired of blowing through God. You got to give people a chance even though they say they're Christian and you don't see it. Like talk about that for a

Denise (44:07)
I think there's, mean, you know, I don't think I talk religion right out of the gate, nor has it ever been talked with me. ⁓ I know that I click left or whatever if it says atheist, or they make a point to put in there, you know, I do not believe in God and all this other stuff. And I'm like, okay, well, we're obviously not going to be a match. ⁓ So go this way. I've only had

Todd Turner (44:25)
I hate religion.

Denise (44:36)
one and I felt he was extreme the other way. You know we talked about our faith and I thought this is great this is great and then it was the extreme I mean obviously there's the the issue of premarital sex and things like that and so we kind of went over that discussion but then it was I don't even want to hold hands or

kiss someone until we get married. And I was worried that he was gay. I thought, okay, this is extreme the other way. And I asked, I mean, I was intrigued. I was like, why? You know, I just don't get it. And he said he wanted to be an example to his children that the first time he didn't do it right. Example.

Todd Turner (45:19)
It yeah.

a bad, a bad example.

Denise (45:35)
of you know I just I don't want any physical contact till marriage and I just thought this is creepy yeah and thought okay we're probably not a match we're probably not match yeah and just because I'm not getting married in a week and I expect to hold your hand in a week you know so there was that ⁓ so I don't I don't

Todd Turner (45:49)
Not probably.

Denise (46:05)
Yeah, you're a different one in the sense of I've never been on a date other than that one that we've talked religion. mean, I guess in the maybe the chatch, you what are you doing Sunday? Are you going to church? And so there's been that loosely, ⁓ but nothing extreme. I do feel, and then I feel bad.

Because then I'm thinking, well, if they aren't a Christian, are they brought into my life for me to share the Lord? So that goes... I know, I know. think, okay, we're so... Yeah.

Todd Turner (46:41)
No dating is not

dating is not a gospel opportunity. doesn't mean that it's not, but you don't go in as a mission field of living data. Atheists is even convert them. I mean, that's, that's enough. That's a heck.

Denise (46:57)
I have never done with that church thing, I've never done a singles group at church. I have always felt that's weird. Works for some, but I've always felt that's weird too. Like I just go to church, singing, praying, and I feel weird, because I've done it. Opened my eyes and like looked around like, okay, who's just sitting with his kids or who's sitting alone? And then I think,

Todd Turner (47:09)
Same. Same.

Denise (47:26)
this is not what I'm supposed to be doing at church. And then what am I gonna like accidentally bump into him or, you know, I mean, it's just weird.

Todd Turner (47:36)
Well, I'm

going to word it differently, but yes, I agree. But for different reasons, my deal is from experience and this is for people who were listening in who, you know, are like laughing because they think we're both idiots. ⁓ Here's the problem. Well, yeah, if you want to meet somebody who's a believer, go to church. Like, are you an idiot? I'm like, no, no, no. I know how hard it is. I've talked to at this point.

somewhere around 150 to 200 people probably. That's probably how many people I've been in chats with, dated or you know, like over eight years. That sounds like a lot. It's not really that much. This week I've done that and it's so hard to find a match. Why would I at my own church meet somebody, find out that we're not a match and now I can't, I don't want to sit by them. It's awkward.

Denise (48:13)
this week.

Do

Todd Turner (48:33)
Like don't mess where you go to church. don't want that. My odds are so low to blend with somebody that I don't even want to go do it. And so to your point, you're either in worship mode and church mode or you're in dating mode and the two don't mix very well. And I know people think, that's your answer. It's not the answer. I don't want to, it's not like people who don't date people to gym because they want to go to the gym.

And if I date you when we break up now, I can't go work out at four o'clock on Thursday because I know you're going to be there. It's the same concept.

Denise (49:07)
See, because I just don't think, I think if somebody introduced me at church and it didn't work out, I wouldn't feel awkward seeing them, you know, like, hey, what's up? You know, we did, we, just because we didn't work out doesn't mean that's not going to be, same with the gym. I mean, unless it was this ugly, you know, right? I mean, but the chances of it not being. So I'm not, I'm not opposed to meeting somebody at church, at the gym.

I just feel awkward looking. So an encounter or some introduction I'm open to because I feel like we can all be adults. You know, we can all go and serve on this thing and if we're not a hit, I don't know. mean, I'm not enemies with anybody that I've been on a date with.

Todd Turner (49:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, no, that's not a hundred percent true, but it's not a century. I know there's some penalties you have because I hate some of your ex boyfriends. So that's not a hundred percent true. Um, so I think that goes back to the role of men and women is to your, what I hear you say is, if a guy asked me out, we went out, you know, it'd be fine. I'm like, no, but where'd the guy, I got to walk up to you at a church. I got to ask you on a date. And now that's awkward.

Denise (50:12)
you

Todd Turner (50:32)
And then, and then now that that doesn't work, then I feel like a creep. They're gonna be like, Oh, that's the guy who asked me out. And they told their friends like, it's not the place for a guy. There's no way I'm going to pursue somebody at church, not doing it, not doing it. Now maybe somebody else's church.

Denise (50:46)
Okay, because I

wasn't attracted to the person and they asked me out. And again, just me, but I wouldn't be like, hey, that's the creep. I would just be like, hey, no, I don't, you know, I would probably, I only date African-American, I would tell them like you're.

Todd Turner (51:02)
Denise, I'm gonna call below.

Right.

I would call bull because what you're doing is you're giving me the answer. That's the right answer. But yeah, you would. You would tell your friend. You tell me that's the guy asked me. I don't want to go over there. You would do that. You would 100 % do that.

Denise (51:22)
If would, I don't know.

Todd Turner (51:23)
I'm telling, I'm your

friend. I'm telling you, would, I know you would. You're like, ⁓ there's a guy over here. Come talk to me real quick. You think I asked about last week.

Denise (51:30)
Because I have like, okay, so not church, but I've tried those. And again, we're in our 50s, so we've tried everything. ⁓ Those single groups where you're not, it's not a dating app, but it's like Facebook, friends, or whatever. And I've gone to, excuse me, meet as a group. And I've had somebody ask me out. No, not, you know, wasn't, did not find him appealing. He was probably short. And.

Todd Turner (51:42)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Denise (51:58)
I've been to other things that he's been at and I've walked up, hugged him and you're so cute. You're so cute. so again, I guess, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I know. I'm just saying we don't, I would not look at it as creepy. So ask the girl.

Todd Turner (52:05)
You got up one knee, hugged deep, you got up.

Ha ha ha.

So let's

wrap up with this because we can talk about a million things on this. But when you finally are in one of these moods, I'm in where it's the telescopic. I'm going to give it a shot versus the microscope of like, what are we doing here? I'm in a microscope moment. Like I am just fed up with it. So you turn off the apps. What is, is it that simple of I'm fed up?

Denise (52:27)
Okay.

Todd Turner (52:51)
I'm optimistic. I'm fed up. I'm optimistic. Like what is, what makes you get back on? Is it finally just, you have your life in order one day and you look up your houses after you're like, yeah, this is not what I want. I guess I'm going to have to date. And then you date for a couple months. And then you're like, I don't have the energy and the time for this. And so you stop like it's a vicious cycle. It can't even be healthy.

Denise (53:14)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, no, I totally agree. And honestly, when I go back on, ⁓ it probably boredom. ⁓ When time in my life, maybe I'm not super busy, because I'm not getting on when I'm super busy. So there's that boredom time or something like that. Optimistic. And then I always have that thought process. Okay, Lord, if...

You want this to be, let this be the time that, you know, my, person you want me to be with is getting on as well. And I think we're always a little bit hopeful when there's communication back and forth, you know, go, Oh, you know, could this be, I mean, then you quickly realize it's not, but there's that moment that you just go, Oh, it could, it could.

Todd Turner (54:12)
know, and

I've got sucked into those where I you meet somebody you're like, this is probably the person and then this is probably a whole podcast episode in itself. But then somewhere along the way really soon, you just find the thing that you're like, or, you know, in my case, I think it's, know, I'm always looking to see other three things. So like, not that, not that they have to love me immediately, but are they

Denise (54:30)
you

Todd Turner (54:41)
Do I, are there walls so impenetrable that I'm not willing to wait? And that's where it's really tough because the older you get, I feel like I run into women who have high walls and thick walls. And some have both. It's and or both, but it's, and there's a difference between high and thick. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. Like,

Like if you're making me just sit, you're judging me to see if I'm just going to chip and chip and chip and chip. My answer is I'm not. I'm not going to chip forever. I'm not. And so if that's the requirement that you want to test me to see how long I'm going to last, I'm not motivated by that because I don't know the end game. If you're not going to pour into me, then I don't know what the end game is. I can go to

the Philippines right now and have an end game. So that's not just like, you'll, you'll, know, idea of men or microwaves, women or crockpots. Like how long does it take you to warm up? I don't have the energy for you to warm up forever. Like I think y'all my, my opinion for women is to give people some benefit of the doubt. Then then

score them on it, not score them to then give them the benefit of the doubt. Like I feel like you y'all are so hard on us and we're not perfect. We're not, we're not perfect. I'm not perfect at all. Not even pretending to be, but I would be committed to the right person if they want to be committed back. I would. And it's just so frustrating. I don't know. I guess I'm in a mood. I'll listen to this and I'll wish I never hit record.

but I am being authentic for the moment.

Denise (56:30)
think

you are in a mood today. I do. think because I think you give the benefit of the doubt a lot more than what your crankiness is ⁓ saying today. you know, I mean, if you go to the Philippines and you find the right one, but I think even the way you feel today, the mail order bride wouldn't even hit it. You know, there's just...

Todd Turner (56:59)
No,

no, you're a hundred percent right. No, would a hundred percent. I'm not even saying that's an authentic solution. I'm saying, have I thought about it? Yeah. I've been that desperate that I have. I've literally thought that would give me a companionship and, somebody who might care about me, you know, and then that's what I crave. I crave, you know, it's not like I'm trying to, ⁓ you know, go back to my twenties or whatever, but I, you know, I want somebody by my side too.

Denise (57:05)
Right.

Todd Turner (57:28)
And ⁓ yeah, I'm, you're ready. That's a, that's another topic that I'm going to throw out there so we can remember it. But there's a saying about women how that when y'all are ready, you're out, you're looking and men, when they're ready, whoever's in front of them wins. And it's true. I believe I re I got to find that saying, but I believe it's true because when a man is ready, he is looking. And so there are people I'll set up the women.

There are men out there who are honestly looking and all you gotta do is drop the guard and you got them. You got them because when they're ready, they're ready. And it's like, hold your line. Yeah, a hundred percent hold your line. It's not like we're all just trying to get married. I hold your line for your right person. But there are, there are people out there who aren't just all men aren't garbage. All men aren't dogs. All men aren't whatever, you know, there are, there are moments where people, they're too.

I think that's why I'm frustrated today, Denise, is that I recently I've had people that I'm in relation to say they want to be in one, but the evidence is contrary. It's contrary. And I think that's why I'm frustrated because.

Denise (58:42)
And

I think we've all been there. I think we've all been there. I mean, I told you, just recently felt like there was a connection and then it kind of and I was just like, why? I mean, we were both feeling that. But again, he was at a point and I'd rather him. Express, yeah, better know early than than never. And I had to be OK with that and.

Todd Turner (59:02)
Better to know early.

Denise (59:11)
It is.

Todd Turner (59:12)
It is what it is. Okay. Thank you for the discussion.

Go sell some houses in Dallas and, ⁓ we'll, we'll continue the conversation. Thank you.

Denise (59:17)
I'm gonna try.

Talk to you soon.