Divorce Diaries: Unpacking the Post-Split Chaos

Join host Todd Turner and guest Carrie Korem Vitt for a forthright and personal look into the complexities of navigating life after divorce in Season 2, Episode 2 of the UnYoked Podcast. Dive into the heart of trauma, healing, and moving forward as we explore the often-misunderstood journey through the lens of faith, forgiveness, and self-discovery. 

- The emotional impact of divorce on individuals and their children, and the importance of maintaining a respectful relationship with an ex-spouse for the sake of the kids.

- Strategies for personal healing and growth post-divorce, including the significance of self-reflection and avoiding hasty decisions such as jumping into a new relationship.

- The role of faith and forgiveness in the healing process, with a Christ-centered approach to moving forward and healing from past hurts.

- The pitfalls of receiving and acting upon well-intended but potentially harmful advice during the vulnerable time post-divorce.

- Insights on the social challenges and lack of support some divorcees face from their church communities, and practical steps towards finding peace and restoration.

Divorce Support, Coping with Divorce, Divorce Healing, Divorce Recovery, Christian Divorce Support, Co-Parenting after Divorce, Forgiving Your Ex, Finding Yourself After Divorce, Divorce Community, Church and Divorce, Personal Growth after Divorce, Divorce and Children, Emotional Healing, Divorce Trauma

Transcript

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Navigating a divorce. The first few months of post divorce is the hardest part of the whole thing. Right. It's. It's the whirlwind of moving parts of change, life, of decisions, reactions, and frankly, it's just exhausting. So, like, there's so many layers to today's our. Our topic today of getting a divorce. And just the first couple months after. After divorce, do you remember yours? Is it a distant memory? Is it a fog? Do you revisit it? What do you remember about that time of your life? I mean, I don't really revisit it often because it wasn't, like, a fun part. I think that, honestly, the first few months of that, the separation had been, like, two years, one year and a half, something like that. Again, I don't really think about a lot of it anymore. And so I was kind of used to living alone, and it's just being me and my kids and stuff like that. So I do remember having that feeling of, like, okay, when this is finalized, especially that first month, am I going to make it? Am I going to be able to get through a month and be okay? And then when I did, I was like, oh, I'm alive. Okay, I can survive. But that was kind of where I was at. Okay. You're a different scenario than me. This is great. So let me ask that question. So, when you're separated, first you sort of learn to do life alone, but then there's this piece of paperwork. We just need this thing signed. But isn't it something's different about the day before and the day after? Because you're thinking, oh, I'm already single. I'm single. But you're not. And then the day that's like, what is that feeling that now it's official. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. And before, when I was separated, I've never thought of myself as single because I did hope that things would be restored and all that jazz. Right. Obviously, it didn't, but, yeah, I mean, the day it was final, it was like, oh, and then you move forward and you're like, oh, now I'm officially single. The safety net's gone. It's the tightrope, and you look down, you're like, oh, there's nothing to catch me. Yeah. I always say I felt like I was jumping off a cliff, and I knew the lord would catch me and I'd be okay, but I felt like I was just free falling. It's really funny. With me in Texas, there's the 60 days you have to wait. Some states, it's a year. You have to wait for what? When you file to the day the judge hits the gavel or the gavel hits the thing, whatever it is, whatever that is. And I think there's just the unknown. There's the negotiation, there's the arguments. There's the lawyers. There's, well, they'll take this deal, but not this deal. All the stress of it all. And then I remember walking away from the lawyer to the car, and it just was this giant weight lifted. Right. Just because it's settled. Whatever is in that decree is in the decree. Like decree. It matters. It matters. Sometimes people think, I will figure it out. We're grown adults. No, that degree decree is everything. It's everything. What it says is so important. I think a lot of people don't take advantage of that. I don't know if you feel this way with guys, but in my dating world, I've been told over and over and over, people said, I wish I would have thought. I wish I would have thought about that. Because it doesn't seem so simple. It's like, oh, well, you have those albums from college, and this is my car, and that's yours. Car. We can do this. We're adults. There's so many things that no one. When your kid goes on a mission trip in five years, when your kids get braces, college funds, all these things that people don't think about until it hits you, and you're like, oh, I wished I would have put that in my. That $200 a month I'm getting is not going to cut it. Totally. Yeah, there's so much. Whatever gets you divorced, that problem. And then there's divorce itself, which is a whole nother layer. And then there's. What you're saying is that, okay, that's settled. And now you look up and you're like, well, I'm single, or I'm a single mom, or a single. Even a single dad. Like, I'm single. It's a phenomenon that I don't think people fully grasp until you're there. And I feel like there was definitely a mourning period for me. The mourning started way before. Yeah. You had years. You mourned for years. Years, yeah, years. And so the day it was finalized, I was in a different state. You don't have to go anywhere. It was just. I literally got an email that said, really? That was it? Oh, well, that's nice. Dramatic. Wow. Yeah. It wasn't quite as, like, dramatic or it didn't feel like, oh, I have to go, and I have to do this. It was just like, I got an email and I'm like, oh, okay, it's done. I just read it by myself in my house, like, all right. Interesting. Yeah. So it's more of like a quiet moment, but a lot of mourning. And I think that there's a lot of mourning for lots of different things, and you never know what's going to trigger it. In fact, my friend and I called it screwdriver moments. And the reason is because after the divorce was final, I had zero tools. Right. Another weird thing you don't think about, right, as a woman or the man, whoever ends up with the tools. I don't know. Right? Normally does. Normally I didn't have a screwdriver. And I remember my dad came over and he was helping me fix some things, and he goes, hey, can you go grab the screwdriver? And I started bawling my eyes out because I didn't have a screwdriver. Yeah. I don't even know where we keep screwdrivers. Right. And it's not there. Yeah. And so he was like, all right, let's go to Home Depot. And then we had to get all. The, wow, okay, wow, that's deep. That has a lot of layers to it. So is part of that as a female feeling, like, okay, now I'm having to wear a male hat. Not that genders are that defined in this area. Not that men have to be rr. We do tools and women do whatever you do. But I wonder if women feel that way more than men, because with me, I wash clothes. I never washed clothes when I was married. I could have. I mean, I did before I was married. I didn't while I was married. And then now I do it now. And it doesn't bother me. Like, I like washing clothes. Actually, I hate dishes. Oh, I hate dishes. But I wash me some clothes. But I know some females that will yard work. It triggers them because they go out and they're like, I should not be weed eating. No, I have those. Do I do. I do. In fact, just the other day, I realized, wow, there's some things that I need fixing, repairing. And every time I walk by those in the house, it's a reminder. It's a reminder. And I was like, okay, Carrie, you know what you could do is hire a handyman, and let's just get this done. And then now you've removed that trigger. Right. But, yeah, I agree. Every married couple takes on their roles. So it doesn't matter if it's a masculine or feminine role, it's just you have your roles, and then when that person is then gone, it's like, oh. I got to retake that over. Yeah. Or I have to learn it. Another one, too. Is just habits. Is watching movies going, whatever your habits were, they're gone. And it's like, well, I can't go to that habit. What if they're doing that habit? We both can't show up at the same habit, and then you have to break the habits. It's so funny. I screen this all the time, and it's broken record. Divorce is so much more complicated than I ever thought. And I think to the people listening, the people that are the ones that either instigate it or don't want to fight for it or whatever, I think whatever it is going on in their head, it's, well, I'll be better off without them, they'll be better off without me, the kids will be better off, whatever their reasons are. And it's this idea of like, well, I just need this person out of my life, and then everything will be okay. It's so naive. Yeah. That's definitely not the full picture. It's not the full picture. It's divorce is so layered, so complicated, and dare I say, so generational. It's not this moment in time. It's not this sheet of paper, and it's not moving from a house to an apartment or apartment. It's not. Okay. Wow. You triggered so many thoughts on my head with the idea of changing habits and changing friends. We're going to talk about friends in another episode of how you lose. That's another giant, giant ripple effect of separation, but. Okay, so let's talk about, especially as christians, I don't want to go necessarily straight into the church right now, but I will say if you're a Christian, I'm assuming a good chunk of your friends are christians, but what kind of advice did you get? Was it healthy? Was it not healthy? What do you wish you knew? Like, if you could go talk to yourself right now, what advice would you have given yourself that you didn't get. That I didn't get? I mean, I will say when it came to just like, friends, and we are going to talk about all that, but a lot of them just tried to stay out of it. Right. Didn't want to give any advice. So the advice that I got was more from mentors or counselors, therapists, pastors. Semi sound advice. Yeah, very sound advice. I don't know if I have anything that I can think of that I didn't get, but I think that some of the biggest pieces of advice that I got that were super helpful were like, widen your circle. Make sure that you're not just trying to keep all of this just between you guys or you guys and one counselor. You need to widen a circle. There need to be multiple people that are godly wise people that understand every single little thing that's going on so that they can speak in. That was probably the wisest piece of advice because then, for me, when I was getting the exact same advice from all those people and those people didn't know each other, then you knew it. Was pretty good advice. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Instead of one person, like, six people have told me blankety blank. Yes. Yeah, that's really good. I think with me, I don't know if people exactly said it, but they certainly implied it and underlined it. It was, take your time. Like, this isn't something that the sheet of paper comes in and you're like, well, I'm just going to pick myself up and I'm going to do this. It's like, okay, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. You are going to have to move or your finances are all changed. Yeah, you're right. You are going to have to tough it out and endure. But that attitude of just, I'm ready. I'm ready for the next phase of my life. Like, no breeze, rest. You have no idea what's coming. No idea. And once again, when you're in the whirlwind of it all, it's sort of like people. I use this analogy all the time. If somebody's dying in need of water, you don't go tell them you need to go dig a well and just give them the water. And I feel the same thing. It's like sometimes you're in the middle of a crisis and it's like, well, you just need to breathe. It's like, okay, well, I got a house to pay. I got kids to feed. I've got to endure. And the answer is, yeah, you do. It's sad that you've got to step up and be independent and hustle and survive, but there's that balance of also sit, breathe, trust. And you're not in a hurry. No, you're not in a hurry for anything. For anything. Whether it comes to dating or a. New haircut or moving. Or moving, however big or small. Right. Okay, that's a great segue because I was going to ask you about that is you already had the separation. So I don't know if this was dramatic for you. Did something about the divorce trigger you into. Okay, now I'm going to paint the house, because I know when it was me in my situation, I got the house and I did have a makeover. Because back to the triggers is every time I walk by a scenario that when you're married, I'm going to use the word tolerate. That's a bad word. Because it doesn't mean my ex did anything wrong. But it's like, if that's her blanket, it's not my blanket. It was her favorite blanket. And then I look at it and I'm like, I don't want that blanket. So I just got rid of. I moved things. I rearranged. I'm like, I've never liked the sugar on the counter. I don't use sugar. I don't want the sugar. So I checked the sugar, I got it. Just anything that made me think of her or us, in a weird way, I just purged and I had a. This sounds childish, but you have to understand, I live in the country, so burning things is not a big deal because we burn stuff all the time. You have a burn barrel. So it wasn't like I. Right. It was an OD thing to burn. But I did. I had a burn party, and it was therapeutic. Sure, it was great. But I do regret, you know how, like anything, you sometimes swing the pillow too far. There was a couple of things that I probably just. I wanted it gone. And later I'm like, I should have kept that. Yeah, I was a little more slow with that. I just wanted to make sure. Will I regret in ten years not having this? But for me, it was more like anything that triggered me, that brought a negative emotion up. I just got rid of it. I made so many trips to goodwill. Really? So many trips to goodwill. But it felt very good. It was like it lightened the load. Because you don't want to know your surroundings. Really make a big difference in how you feel every day. And so if you are looking at things that are continually reminding you of negative stuff, that is going to impact how you feel every day. But I didn't make any big changes at all? Big haircut? You didn't move cities or whatever? No, I just. Really slow. I mean, I did move, but that was kind of, like, already in the back of my mind. And then prayed and prayed and prayed about it. Yeah. You were running from something. You were running to something. No. Yeah, there's a difference. For sure. Okay, so now church. I got to be honest. Right now in my life, I mean, I'm just being transparent. I am so anti religion, pro Jesus, anti church. And I know people hear that, and that's sometimes confrontational in their mind. Well, how can Jesus love the church? You should, too. Okay, well, I get that. I get the theology of. I'm talking the practicality. American church culture. It has become something different. And that part I don't like. And so part of the reason I even have this podcast is I feel like divorced people, christians in particular, do not get good sound advice and or empathy from the church, and they need real talk, not verb verses thrown at them. What was your experience? Because I also know I have people say, oh, my gosh, my church is the only reason I survived. That's great. That's great. I'm not saying it's not possible. Sure. And I'd also say it may have been really helpful for you. Doesn't mean they gave you any sound on anything. It's just they were your community, and it worked for you. But what can you tell me a little bit about your experience? Did you get bad advice? Did you feel welcome? Was it challenging? Did you have to change churches, talk through that a little bit, yeah. I mean, before the separation, we were in a Bible study group, small group, things like that. Honestly, I felt just completely abandoned. Wow. Like, completely abandoned by your church family, which is a double abandonment. Yeah. And I understand that they did not understand everything was going on because there's only so many people. You're only going to tell all the things to a very select amount of people. And I had a pastor, I had a counselor, I had a couple of certain family members, some older mentors, you know what I mean? And I was like, but everybody else. In the hallway has no idea. They don't know. Or maybe they only hear bits and pieces or rumors. There was probably rumors. I don't know if there were. But I'm just saying, you feel like. There is, you feel like there are. And so that was tough because I felt like I had to go through that season without people really walking beside me. And then even after the divorce, when I moved to Texas, the first church I was at, there was not the support I needed. It was more just like, oh, we found out that you're divorced. So, okay. Therefore, without wanting to know my story, well, we should just get you all back together. Why don't we just arrange a meeting? No way. These stories drive me insane, because it's the tension between truth and grace. They're scoring truth so high. God loves marriage. So once you restored, which I'm like, hold on. I mean, yeah, in a perfect world, sure, but it doesn't mean that that trumps trauma, abuse, none of that. Oh, my goodness. I didn't know that happened to you. Like, that drives me insane. And so now you either have to say, yes, no, maybe, or I'm going to another church. I said no left. And everybody that was in my community group at that time 100% left my side. I have not heard from them in years. Are you serious? So in other words, you don't love the Lord enough or you don't respect marriage enough, so therefore you wouldn't even try to reconcile. I honestly can't answer for them. I don't know. But I think that it was very unfortunate. And so I left that church, and I was warned. I had a lot of friends that had told me that had gone through divorces, that they had what we would call, like, biblical grounds, things like that. Right? And they were told, like, look, this is how a lot of times you're going to get treated. You're not going to get the support. It's just like churches don't. A lot of the church doesn't know what to do and they just want restoration. And I can understand that. That's what I wanted, too. Right? You didn't put in the time like. You put in your time. I put in the time. I have a story of a budy of mine who. Same thing. He worked at a church. Now, he was only allowed to be associate pastor or whatever because he had been divorced, right? But he somehow was working for a church, which is a miracle, because some churches wouldn't even put you on staff. Divorce. But I'll give him that. That they let him be on staff until his ex wife, who they've been married, divorced for a long while, and she had done him wrong. Wrong, like, wrong. And she comes and tells the elders, I want to restore my marriage. And they told him, like, well, you need to restore your marriage. He's like, well, I don't want to. They put him on a forced sabbatical. And he's like, I'm fishing every day because I know my answer. Yeah. He goes, I prayed. I did. But when you don't love someone anymore, to force, that's another thing I don't think people think through. When you say force a reconciliation, it's not like you could just forgive. Some things aren't there. You can forgive, but you don't have to forget. I've forgiven. Yeah, 100% forgive. I've forgiven too. But it doesn't mean that I want reconciliation. You can forgive and not go back. If you don't love somebody, that feels like more of a disservice to go back and say, well, I'm marrying you because our church says we should be married. Don't love you, don't want to love you. We've caused damage. You're divorced. Yeah. I mean, I do think there's a space for, like, let's say one person was wrong. I mean, I know there's always two people. You know what I mean? One person was severely wronged and there's a divorce. Right. And then that person that had wronged them wants to come and say, hey, I am sorry. They want to own up to things. Maybe they want to get back together. But I think that that person that was wronged, I think that they should seriously consider sitting down, having a cup of coffee, hearing them out, hearing their heart, especially if they want to apologize. You never know what could happen. And then, who knows? Maybe restoration can happen down the road and maybe it doesn't. Right? But I don't. But that's still a good moment. Yeah. If it's real. If it's real, that's the other thing, too. I feel like that's another problem with divorce is divorce is so catastrophic, and like I say, the tsunami effect of it. I think some people are like, I'm so sorry. Well, what are you sorry that our finances are run? Are you sorry our kids are messed up? Are you sorry? What are you sorry about? There's a lot of things to be sorry for. So I've had people, I'm sorry. We're like, well, okay, but are you sorry you got caught? What are you sorry for? Sure. And so one time somebody asked me that with my ex, they go, have you forgiven? And I take the word love really important. Like, I don't say I love you unless I mean it. Sure. And I don't say forgiven. So somebody goes, have you forgiven? And I go, if I tell you, yes, I'm lying. Because which one of the hundred things you want me to just blanket forgive? Or is it this lie or this thing or whatever? So it took me a while to learn what forgiven means. So in other words, to your point, even if somebody comes back with a repentive heart, man, it would take a lot of conversation to say, what do you mean by that? You sorry for hurting me that time or that time or that time or that time. Right. But to your point. I do believe if, when possible, nothing's a blanket roll, but when possible, if the giant offender in a relationship wants to come and say, I'm sorry, that's probably not a bad conversation to have. Sure. With boundaries. With boundaries. And it's going to look different for everybody. And maybe if it was an abusive situation, maybe it's not a conversation between the two of you. It's a conversation with a group, with a third party. With at least a third party. Yeah, I feel that, too. I've always wondered, especially with affairs, and I'm going to say affairs with christians, because that happens plenty. That idea of, does anybody ever apologize? You know how married couple, christian married couples have an affair and then they'll go get married? Is there a certain point? Because when you justify it in your head, you're like, well, the Lord brought me this person, or I'm better off, whatever. I'm like, wrong. Right. That's not theologically sound at all. God did not break his own rules and say, yeah, I brought you a better person, but at some point do you just go back and say, did both people say, we're sorry, we made a mistake, we apologize, but we're not going to get divorced, like, now. Does two divorces make it right? That's a whole nother deal. If you get a divorce and then you say you're sorry, do you stay married? What if you have new kids? Like, how are you going to tell those qi, what we would even say 15 years ago, we're going to now divorce and cause you trauma. See, divorce has ripple effects. Yeah. It's so multilayered and it's so individualized, too. I think everybody has a different story. And I think, too, this is also in the context of, you have fought, fought, fought, fought, fought to not make it happen. Right. I just feel like that needs to be said again, even though I know that we talked about that the first time, I feel like it needs to be said in every time we chat because. Agreed. That is the heart I know you're coming from and I'm coming from of, like, this is not what we want for anybody, but if you find yourself here after. If you find yourself here after giving it your all. Yes. Then here's some advice. Here's some advice. I say it like this. I don't want to be accused of romanticizing divorce. No. But unfortunately for me, like, on my YouTube channel, I talk about the upside of divorce, and I know people are going to come in that doorway. They're like, this guy's acting like you should get divorced. But guess what? If you find yourself here, there are some silver linings. I'm a different person today than I ever would have been married. There are some ups. I travel more. I know myself better. I'm a better. Define better. But I'm a better person. I'm a person I would have never been. Okay. I can agree with that. Yeah. I can't call that silver linings, personally, for me, that I think it's like, okay, this happened to me and it was horrible and awful, but then the Lord has redeemed certain parts of that for me, personally, for my kids, and has grown me a lot. Yeah. I just couldn't call it a silver lining. Yeah. I don't know. That's okay. If that's your choice of words. I know it's fair. I think one, I'm trying to help people realize that they're not doomed. You're not doomed. No. You can come to the other side. Yeah. You can come out and you can be stronger and you can learn more about your walk with the Lord, and you can grow and move through all sorts of things. When you're not tethered, when you're not yoked, the Lord can use you in different ways. It's just true. It doesn't mean. Hey, if you're listening, you're thinking about getting divorced. Trust me, go do it. It's awesome. I don't mean that, but I don't know. I believe that God is a God of redemption and restoration. It doesn't mean your marriage has to be redeemed or restored. Sure. Yeah. He can redeem other parts, us individually. I do believe that. Which is. I'm going to circle back to bad advice about when you're in this situation. I think sometimes your friends, especially our christian friends, they just want to put a positive spin. You'll be better off, or God's got somebody better for you. Horrible. I never heard that. Thankfully, I never heard anything like that ever. I did. Like, God's got somebody better or whatever. You'll be happier with somebody else. No, that's terrible. Terrible, terrible. Yeah. And once again, you can't speak for God. I don't know. I could die of a car wreck tomorrow. I never found anybody else. Never did. So it's a lie to tell somebody that. Here's what's going to happen in your life now. Are there opportunities? Sure. I think one of the things I want to land the plane on, on this discussion for sure doesn't mean I'm landing the plane. But on this topic is that I already lost my train of thought. It's this idea that we live in this broken world and nothing is going to be perfect till we get to heaven. And so this idea that american Christianity pushes on us, that the Bible's a playbook, your best life now. And as soon as this bad things happen, well, God's got something. But Jeremiah 20, 911. Nonsense. That idea, it's nonsense. And we live in an american christian culture of, well, I'm a Christian, and it's always abundance, abundant living, abundant whatever. And it's just like, well, pull yourself up. God's got something better for you. And it's like, we live in a broken world. My marriage just broke. It's broken, and I don't know if it's going to get fixed, and it may not get fixed. What do you do in that? And so it's just that balance between trusting the Lord, drawing close to him, and living in a broken world that's full of pain. I mean, if I have a takeaway from being divorced, I am 100% more empathetic, which is my next question for you, is I saw things so differently until I walked it. And now that I walked it, it is. The silver lining for me is that I am so much more attentive to people who are hurting and broken than I ever would have been before. I just didn't get it. And now that I get it, I have a podcast, for crying out loud, where I speak to people who, I mean, come to me. You wouldn't believe the emails I get of people just like, thank you. I never got this from anybody else at my church. Nobody gets I'm hurting. Whatever. I literally got some at YouTube yesterday, said, please pray for me today. People are out there hurting. They're hurting. And I don't know. I was horrible at that. So I guess that segues. My question to you is, what advice would you give on this side of divorce to somebody going through, or have you, or do you frequently, what's some sort of high level bullet points that if somebody, you know, Steve just moved out, we're getting a divorce. What's your answer now? And maybe what might have not been that before? Yeah, I mean, definitely the whole, widen the circle. Like I talked about, you make sure you've got a good counselor, therapist. You got to have somebody like that outside of your circle, too, that you can just talk to. Right. That's just so not a friend conversation. Yeah. Somebody that's, like, trained. And then I would encourage them. And even walk alongside them, if I could, if it was that kind of a friend or whatever, of like, okay, what is your time in the word looking like, where are you at? You know what I mean? Are you angry and just don't. Or are you wanting to? Just like, I did basically sleep with your bible. You know what I mean? I had it right there with me all the time. Because you got to just really cling to the Lord. And then, I think, really be focused on, if you have children, what are their needs? Where are they at? What help do they need right now? And really, your focus, if you have children, it really should just be on you, your healing and your kids also, you got to fight. Right? So there's that layer, too, but there's so many layers. But hone in on that, because your kids right now need way more help, way more attention, way more care and love than they ever have. But you also need that, too. So it's hard because. And I was in that situation where my girls were really struggling. I had fallen apart, and it was like, okay, well, I kind of had to pull myself up by my bootstraps with the Lord's help and really just pour into them. But I really think you need to make it about taking care of yourself, taking care of your kids, spending time with the Lord, having a good therapist, and that's kind of your world for a while. I totally agree. Matter of fact, I was going to ask that. You're touching on exactly what I was going to ask you. That tension between being a good parent and remembering the airline when the face mask. You got to take care of yourself. At the same time, you got to take care of your kids. And it's a weird balance, because if you're not healthy, you're not going to be healthy for your kids. And at the same time, I know people who are trying to get healthy in the unhealthy ways. Yeah. Codependent or dating. They're like, well, I need blank. No, you don't. You don't focus on those kids. Breathe, rest, sleep, sleep. You even said about the thing, seriously, if you sit home, eat horrible, you feel horrible, you feel horrible, you eat horrible. And it's a circle down. But at the same time, I give people permission to nap. Like watch Netflix flip. Like, it's okay, but get up and walk. Say yes to things you don't want to say yes to. Just get out of the house. You got to socialize. I totally believe in that. But you said something a second ago, and I'm going to push a little bit on it. Like, you ask somebody, are you still angry? Well, sometimes the answer is, it's okay. Do you want to live in anger? No, but it's sort of the front. It's back to that. Christianse, I don't like is this idea of like, well, I'm really anxious about this. We're fixing to lose our house. My kids got cancer. Whatever. Well, the Bible says, don't be anxious. Screw you, Bob. I'm anxious. And so my answer is, I'm angry. Well, you shouldn't be angry. Well, you may have plenty to be angry for, but don't live in it. How long are you in that? Yeah. And are you angry at the Lord? Are you angry at the situation? Great. Where's the anger? And for me, if I was in that situation, okay, why am I angry? What's going on? And maybe it's just everything has come crashing down around me, but I think that's kind of an emotion. God gave us all the emotions. Right. There's a time for everything. There's time for everything, right. But you also don't want to hang out there too long. So I think that allowing yourself to feel that stuff, but then also reminding yourself of the truth while you're angry. That's right. And having a long vision that realize it's a season. It's a season. You're in a season right now that does end. And I say this all the time. The end isn't when you get a new spouse or a new boyfriend or a new girlfriend. That is not next. You've got so much work. It is so hard to unyoke and to be single. Learn who you are, not who you were. That person's gone. Your pre divorce self, your pre marriage person, is not you anymore. You've been married. Maybe you have kids, maybe you don't. You've got to unyoke and then move forward, and that's this long season. And throwing somebody in there to date, to just kill your time or to make you think, I need somebody is one of the most foolish things you can do post divorce. I think it's selfish. It's very selfish. Yeah, it's selfish for the other person. I mean, it hurts them. It hurts them. Hurt people. Hurt people. You're wasting time. And it hurts your kids. Oh, totally. And really, honestly, it hurts you in the long run. It hurts you in the long run. I agree. And I also want to say, because a friend had said this to me, she's like, a few years ahead of me being divorced. And this was a few years ago. We were out on a walk and she said, yeah, I was talking to a group of people that they've all been divorced. And they were all kind of talking about, how long does it take until you don't wake up and think about your ex anymore? And the consensus was about five years. And what's really interesting, it was about around the five year mark for me, it shifted. I agree. I'm five plus years, and I'm in a place now where I was not a year ago or two years ago. I've been embarrassed about it because I hear people get married in one year, two year, three year, and I'm like, I raised my hand. It's taken me five years to finally get like, this is really funny. I haven't told anybody this. So here we go, everybody. Okay, we're recording this, by the way. I'm going to say now, nothing is like at this moment, it happens a little bit, then more and more and more, and then next thing you know, it's like, oh, it's happening. I can sit at my kitchen table. You know how long I sit at my kitchen table alone? And I would just feel alone at my kitchen table. And now I sit at my kitchen table. I'm just happy to be at my kitchen. I don't even think about, I used to be married. I used to, or I want to be. I just exist. And I sit down and read a book on my couch alone. And I'm just happy. I have a house and a place to have. I am content being. It took me five years to get there and a lot of failed nonsense along the way. Like, it wasn't a smooth ride. But I finally am just happy where I'm at. And it's been a tough journey because how many times I think I mentioned this on podcast, YouTube, something, but at one time, I remember getting out of bed and I just threw the covers off in anger. I was so mad that I was alone mad. And I was like, I shouldn't be alone. Why am I alone? I went up, got, went to the bathroom, and I came back and I was like, I was processing, like, what am I so mad in my 50, whatever, 40 at the time, 48 year, I've never thrown the covers off violently. That never happened. So I knew something was weird because who does that? And so I walk back to bed. I go, what is it? What triggered that? And it was because I wanted someone to be quiet, to get up. I wanted to come back to bed quietly. I wanted somebody to be there. And they weren't. And I was mad that everything had been, that I loved and cherished was taken away from me. I was just ticked. And then it took a year or two to learn how to sleep alone without having somebody there with me. I was like 20 years, almost. Like, that's a long time to sleep with somebody. Then they're not there anymore. And then all I say, all the new habits and patterns and whatever, and then you start forward thinking about, well, what do you want? A new relationship? What would that look like? And how am I going to navigate that and whatever. And then now I'm past that and I'm just like Tod. It's just God and me and my family, and that's where I'm putting my effort and my work. And it's like, I don't know. I finally got to the point of considering what would life be like if I never get married. Because before I always thought I will. Now I'm like, maybe I won't. Yeah. You know what? It's sort of nice. Well, that's good. Five years. That's great. So maybe your people are right. Maybe five years. The mark. I guess it's a ratio of how long. If you've been married three years and get divorced, I guess it'd take you five to undo it. Yeah, probably not. There's a ratio here, but you never know. You don't know how long because how long is it going to take you to heal? Once again, you sort of said it earlier, though. One person, I'm going to say typically, I don't know if that's a fair way to say it. One person typically is the instigator of a divorce. Right. One person normally skews a little bit harder as they're the violator of trust or the betrayer or whatever it is. But none of us are fully innocent. No. At all. Sure. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. And it's not as simple as, well, I should have done this one thing. No. What is the root problem of that? Made you do that or not do that? And being single is a great time to just say, all right, lord, let's get under the hood, figure out why do I think this way? Why do I act this way? Why did I treat them this way when this happened? And why did I allow that thing to happen? And that takes time. It takes therapy, takes wisdom. Yeah. And I think it's important to just take out that time to really work on yourself. And I do want to say, and I love that you're in a place where you're like, I am so happy being alone and all that. I also want to speak to the person that's like, I struggle with being single. I want to do life with somebody. I don't like being alone because I think the church really promotes the whole, like, singleness is a. I feel like that's taking some scripture out of context. Yeah. How did God, when Eve came, he goes, this is good. And then later, Paul's like, well, it's so good to be single. It's like, well, hold on, which one is it? Because if it's good to be single, then Adam could have just hung out by himself. It ain't that. Know. God even said, it's not good for a man to be know. I don't buy into that idea of, like, singleness is this amazing gift. Do I think that this is a gift that was given to me? No, it wasn't a gift. I'm in this situation because of sin. Broken world ripples. Yeah. It doesn't mean that I don't have joy, that I'm not content with the Lord and what he's given me and taken away and all that. But if you do have a desire to not do life by yourself, that's okay. That's a good desire. And the Lord puts that on some of our hearts. And for some of us, he's like, no, for some people, he does give them the gift of celibacy, which is actually what that verse is talking about. Right? Yeah. Which not everybody has that gift. Not everyone has that gift. That's 100% taking. So I just wanted to speak to that because. No, that's a great point. That's a slippery slope. Because we could talk an hour about this. Because I get confused on that, because when I hear, here's what I know about you. Okay. We've talked outside these microphones before. Okay. But I do believe what it takes to have a successful second marriage or third or whatever next marriage, whatever that number is. Say second. Because that's why I see it is this desire that says, I want to love someone biblically. Yeah. And I want to partner with somebody. We live because of what I said about the american christian culture. We have this idea of, like, whatever makes me happy, whatever. I have all this criteria for somebody to be my next. And if you don't behave this way, then I'm not going to behave this way. And we put our walls up, and that's why we see the swipe. Culture is so dangerous because it's like, when you're compatible for me, I'll love you. And the Bible is like, no, you love and then you become compatible. You have to have that attitude of like, I want to be someone's partner and I will suffer, I will sacrifice, I will do what's best for that relationship at my own demise. That will work. Yeah, totally. And I don't think when I say I don't see that hardly at all. And by the way, I'm guilty. This is not me criticizing the world. I have been guilty of this, of being highly judgmental and wondering, well, that's not a compatible. Yeah, I don't want that. I don't want that. So I'm not going to do that because I don't have to. Which is another thing we don't have to. I know. Isn't it complicated? This is the thing I can't do. I'm a pretty good empathizer and I'm pretty good at, you don't have to die to write a death scene. So I'm pretty good at putting myself in people's place. I don't understand the difference between being divorced in your even 40s, but fifty s and sixty s. I feel like your ruts are, you're deeper. It's harder to combine lives here than it is in your 20s. It's like you get divorced in your 20s. You're like, well, I can still have kids. My career is still going. Everything's on this forward path. And you just say, oh, I'll pick a new person and we'll keep going at this side past childbirthing and rearing ages. I feel like you do have this choice of like, well, I could just. Well, there's always a choice. It just depends on where you're at and what your personality is like and what you're desiring and different things like that. Don't you want to for everybody couple with people going in the same direction you're going with and you have the ability to do that. Yeah. So where's that tension between what is compatible and then what is desirable? If we're talking about finding another spouse, dating stuff like, mean, I think that people just get way too picky on know. I think it should just be some of the basics of, like, do they love Jesus? Are they actually walking with the Lord? Do they have a forgiving heart? Do they like, kind of just like basics. And then a lot of the other stuff is just kind of like, those aren't. So I've said this before to somebody. I've said it multiple times. It feels stupid, but I think I'm right. And that is I almost want to repeat everything you just said. If someone loves the Lord, like they're truly, like they are trying to be christlike. Okay, I'm not saying they're religious. I'm not. Forget they go to church. It's christlike and they're a good communicator and they understand what a covenant means. Couldn't those people just get married and you work it out? Yes. I feel like people could just say, totally, I found somebody fits these criteria and we're going to make a commitment and we're going to be in a covenant. And it may suck for a while and it may be bumpy some areas because you'll realize, oh my gosh, I didn't know you chewed with your mouth open. And for the love of goodness, that drives me crazy. But if somebody's christlike and they're a good communicator, talk about it. Can't you work through that? Because I love you and I love the Lord, I'm going to work on my chewing. And because you love the Lord and you're, you're like, I'm gonna learn to not get so freaking upset about it. Sure. I think so. I think so. There's a pastor that I follow and he says it all the time. He says that? He even says this because he speaks more to like, kids in their twenty s and stuff like that. Well, young adults, not kids, young adults. But he said that young adults will come to him all the time. Like, oh, I can't find somebody to marry. And he's like, literally you could be married by the end of the week. Yeah, literally you could. If you want to. If you want to. And like you said, just find someone with those kind of criteria that also has a teachable heart. Right? Teachable spirit. This is a whole other topic. It's a whole nother top. We've slippery slope, but it's a great point. But you could, it's not that hard. And I think that today, if we're just talking about dating and stuff like that, we make it so much about us. It's such a selfish thing. Instead of going like, hey, can I find somebody that loves Jesus, is a hard worker, has some of these basic, really awesome core things and then, okay, how can we die to ourselves to build something and honor the Lord? Okay, agreed. But now we're going to wrap up. We're going to combine two things that feel over here. Okay? And that is, I believe everything you just said and I said is true about marriage. And at the same time, it doesn't feel prudent for two hurt people or a hurt person to marry, which is why we're saying, don't start that until you've healed. We're speaking out of both sides of our mouth, but I believe they're both together. But I think it's good stuff to have in the back of your mind while you're walking through the healing process. Yeah. When it comes time to date later, we'll have another conversation about dating and what the lenses you have on, because I think that's important. But I would also say it would not be wise because you can't make good decisions when you're hurt. Divorce is trauma. I want to screen that. It's not a sheet of paper and moving houses. It's trauma. It's generational. And it takes a long time to come out of it and to land well. And not everybody lands well. No. And a lot of people make bad decisions. Life decisions, bad haircuts, bad life decisions, bad job changes, bad new boyfriends, bad new husbands. And I actually read a stat today that said that 6% of people remarry their first spouse and 70% of those get divorced again. Isn't that crazy? It makes you wonder, like, whatever the dysfunction was the first time never really disappeared, but they went back because it was familiar or whatever. They're still hurt. So, anyway, I think that leads to get healed. Heal your kids. They will thank you later. They may not thank you, but Jesus will. And I think also just kind of be very mindful of who you talk to about what's going on. And especially don't be talking about it on social media. And be very careful about the words that you say about your ex. That's your kid's parents. Yeah. In the Bible, it says, like, the overflow from the overflow of the heart. The mouth speaks, right. So really check in on yourself, and if you are speaking a lot of negativity, go, what's going on in my heart? You know what I mean? It doesn't mean they don't deserve, doesn't mean they've not done wrong. It doesn't mean any of that. But you also have control over what you speak, what you're thinking about, what you're harboring in your heart, and really just keeping it more quiet, keeping it to yourself. Having some really trusted people you talk to. Awesome. But then outside of that. Totally agree. It doesn't make you look wise. And everybody knows when you're on social media and you see something, you're only getting one side of the story. It just feels foolish. It is foolish. It is foolish. And your kids hear it, and that's their parent. And I don't care if your parents screwed up. You did too. You did, too in various ways. And so you have to be super duper careful about how you speak to the public and how you speak to your kids about your ex. No matter they may be an idiot, they may be a jerk, they may be a first class whatever, right? That's your kid's parent. Right? Salvage that respect and relationship because it's worth gold later. And it's going to create you more harm when you sever that relationship. Because now your kids are going to be suffering in more ways than they ever needed to be. They're already suffering plenty. And then when you just throw a wedge there so you'll win. Oh, so foolish. Yeah. I mean, my rule back when all this happened and then even now is I'll speak the truth, but I'm not going to speak anything dishonoring to my children about my ex at all. He's still their dad, right? And they have to honor their dad, but we can speak the truth. So I don't know. Let's just say, like, if my ex had lied, I could say, yes, he lied about that, but I'm not going to go on and be like, oh, your dad's a liar. You can't trust the thing out of his mouth ever. No, there's a difference. Yeah. So I was real careful about that. Because your kids are watching what you're saying, too. Still their parent. And so you can speak truth, but you need to speak in an honoring way. Yeah, totally agree. Okay, well, let's wrap up whatever got you divorced. That's not always one thing, but sometimes looks like one thing. There's normally some fruit and root issues, right? There's navigating that. There's navigating the divorce process. There's navigating the aftermath. They're all different stages. They're all different stages. They all have their own trauma and their own ripple effects. For the love of goodness, don't do anything stupid. Don't do anything quick. Breathe, rest, and be ready to focus on your family and yourself. And you may need to mend some relationship, and you're going to lose some friends. And we'll talk about that in the next episode, how to navigate that. But you don't even know what's coming. You don't know. And we're here to tell you there's a lot coming your way. And breathe, rest, eat right, sleep. All the things. Just common sense stuff. And quit worrying about. Will you ever find love again? Maybe not. But that's not the goal, right? It's not even the goal. No, it's quick thinking. Think, oh, I failed at a relationship, so a success will be a new, good relationship. That's not the way to look at it. So that's why I try to screen people. All right. Thank you for this conversation. It's been wonderful. Thank you. Bye.