Breaking the Divorce Curse: Unleashing a New You

Welcome to Episode 17 of the UnYoked Podcast: 'The Secrets to Rebuilding Your Life After Divorce' with your compassionate and insightful host, Todd Turner. This episode dives deep into the personal and spiritual rebirth that can emerge from the ashes of a Christian divorce. Todd takes us on a journey of empathy and healing, filled with thought-provoking insights and practical advice for anyone navigating the aftermath of a marriage’s end. From redefining 'good' in God's eyes (22:14) to embracing the role of tragedy in our lives (27:50), listeners will discover the transformative power of perseverance and faith.

Todd candidly discusses the stigma and loss of community faced by divorcees within the church (09:32), shattering misconceptions about divorce recovery and the power of connection and understanding (03:56). Tune in for personal anecdotes (15:12) and real-world advice for dealing with blended family challenges and forming new relationships with a clean slate (36:08).

This episode cuts through "cheap t-shirt theology" (29:30) and emplores listeners to embrace their place in God's grand narrative (32:40), all while addressing the very real challenges and opportunities that present themselves post-divorce (12:20).  

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Christian divorce pain, process, and possibilities.
• 3:20 Podcast discusses divorce in churches and theology.
• 7:47 God's work makes us more like Christ.
• 11:31 Many Christians miss God's true intentions.
• 13:36 Encourage church, share podcast, suggest helpful resources.
• 17:58 Start doing the right thing for others.
• 26:47 Navigating liberal and conservative perspectives, truth prevails.
• 29:42 Challenges promoting Christian divorce podcasts, seeking understanding.
• 31:50 Embracing empathy and nonjudgmental attitude toward hobbies.
• 33:03 Podcast addressing challenges and opportunity after divorce.
• 34:29 Church reunion tour triggers a prayer reminder.

Transcript

0:02

The unyoked podcast navigating the pain, process and possibilities after a christian divorce. What good can come out of tragedy when the stains are deep and the scars are visible? When the dumpster fire of it all creates a haze around your life? How can anything good come of that? One thing I really am frequently amazed of is when you're inside your house and you look outside, the thunder is roaring, the lightning is coming down, it's pouring, and it feels like it's never going to end. And literally 2 hours later, the sun can be out and the birds are chirping, and the next thing you know, there's sunshine and puddles, and then no puddles. Like things in the middle of it seem so bad. But just a little bit of time, a little bit of God's grace can change the perspective of everything. And it just feels like maybe the storm never even happened. We've talked a lot in this podcast about the different feelings you have after divorce, the fetal position, the crawling, the walking, and hopefully running. Things just get better with time. But for many of us, the pain lingers and there are scars. But you know who ministers well to somebody in crisis? Somebody who's been in Cris. We need to find our silver linings. I'm going to tell you a little story. My ex wife, at the time, my wife was the children's minister at our church, and she was every Sunday morning, without fail, the phone would start ringing. And it was all the people who promised to work in childcare that were backing out. Because we have Facebook, we're like, oh, you were at that party last night, or you went to that concert, or, oh, look, you're in a whole other city we can see. And so we would just laugh about it. And one of the other things where we were laughing about the same group of people we always went to for help, and there was an older group that were like the empty nester groups. And quite frankly, we were young, we're in our right, and we would roll our eyes and talk about, why didn't that older group help? They know what they're doing, how come they're not putting in their time? Well, then we became empty nesters. And I was like, oh, we're tired. I don't help either. It's like, well, you're going through that, you go through it. I've already gone through that. I managed, I got out of it. I feel like it's my time now and I'm moving forward. But I'm going to ask you if you're listening to this. Don't forget the pains. Don't forget the pains of childbirth. Same idea. You have a child, it's painful. Then you hold that child, you start raising it and you just don't even think about the pain anymore. I say that as a guy, but you get my point. Remember that bloody mess we feel like about being in a car wreck and coming into church? Don't forget divorce is a crisis in our churches, in our society. And I am so happy that this podcast, my number one listen to episode, is episode one. Considering get a divorce as a christian, it is a real problem in our churches. And you have people who sit to the right of you and left you in your churches that need help, and we need to be that help. Statistics say that divorce after remarriage has a 60% to 70% failure rate and divorce for your first marriage is like a 40% and it averages out 50%. So we say 50 50 post divorce. Having poor lenses really affects the divorce rate after marriage, and we have to cut to get ourselves healthy so we can help get other people healthy, right? This whole podcast I push against the church's t shirt theology and not having simple answers to complex problems. One of the things that we do is romans 828, God causes all things to work together for good. There's just this primary misunderstanding of this verse, and it revolves around the belief that it's a promise meant to be fully experienced in this lifetime. When tragedy unfolds, there's a suggestion that it will ultimately lead to something good within the confines of our current life. But frequently this misconception and misapplication, they come from a place of good intention. And it feels like the nice thing to say is like, things are bad, the storm's bad, but it's going to be pretty. But these misinterpretations can have unintended and potentially destructive consequences. For those who receive this well meant advice. Tragedies are real. There are times for suffering. The Bible says there's times for pain and for sadness. And this idea that God has something better for you and he's going to work it out for good, it's not true necessarily. Like, I could have a car wreck today, they could die tomorrow, I could get cancer tomorrow. So anybody who told me God's got somebody better in store for you, I never believed that. And it's unhealthy. So we don't want to be one of the people who relay that nonsense. Remember the commandment I've probably mentioned three or four times in this whole podcast. Don't take the Lord's name in vain. Well, this is that. Speaking for God, saying God is going to make your life better than before. I've talked to this with multiple theologians about Job's story. Sometimes I wish, be careful saying this. I wish God didn't put in there that he rewarded job. Because a lot of preachers see, like, see, look, he was faithful and he got rewarded. God didn't have to reward Job at all. Job could have died after all of it. Without a new wife, without new kids, without double his flock. God's still God. And you don't want to promise somebody that they just get through this. God's got something better in this life. So don't throw cheap t shirt theology at these complex issues. Your crisis, my crisis, should help us see that sometimes Christianse is more damaging than it is helpful. We must see the active involvement of God. What happens to you and to me is not this mechanical turning of a wheel. It's not fate or karma or luck. God is actively at work in your life. Paul, when he wrote this, is erecting a sign over this unexplainable mystery of life, a sign that reads, be quiet, God's at work. How we're not always sure to what end, don't know. It's good and not evil. Not necessarily your good. One thing I get frustrated with, like when a hurricane comes and it leaves this one church standing, we put all over facebook, like, look at God. He protected that church. It's like, well, 30 other churches crumbled and aren't there anymore. And there's a strip club down the street that had a pretty solid roof on it and it made it so what kind of theology do we get from that? We can't speak for God. Sometimes God does show himself miraculously, but it doesn't mean that we can make promises and make claims that just aren't true because we're not God. So what is truly good if all things work out for good? Well, God is at work in your life making you like Jesus Christ. He has predestined you to that end. He's at work in your life making that happen. Therefore, anything that makes you more like Christ is good. Anything that pulls you away from Christ is bad. Our good and God's good are not the same. We want happiness, fulfillment, peace, long life, blessings. God is at work in us and through us, by everything that happens to us, to transform us into the image of his son. Does that include the worst that happens to us? Yes. Does that include the things that hurt us deeply. Yes. Does it include times when we're heartbroken? Yes. Does that include times when we sin? Yes. Does it include the time when we doubt God? Yes. Does it include the times when we curse him to his face? Yes. When we get a healthy view of God and his story, we get a healthy view of our response. Now let me preach a little further on this. If you're listening to this podcast, you grew up in a point in time where we have an unhealthy view of scripture, a me first approach, biblical principles that make me richer, successful, a better leader. That's the real hot one right now. Knowledgeable. But we need to reframe scripture. God's word is literally God telling us a story, his story. He is the great master author, right? And what happens is we turn that into, how is this supposed to help me? How can I grab some principles out of there to make my life better? But when you look in Scripture, they read God's word. They memorized his word. They read it out loud. They unpacked the hard stuff. And in our churches, sometimes, like we said in our church episode, we have pastors making analogies out of analogies. Remember the David? And like, we have pastors who sit up and say, well, God can crush any goliath in your life. It's like, yeah, that wasn't really the purpose of that story, but thanks for twisting it. Right? Our bookstores are full of your best life now. Thriving, abundance. And some of you are a little bit more conservative, like, yeah, Tod, preach against the name it and claim it. My pastor is amazing and he's got this right. No, even in our conservative churches, our pastors likely don't sit up and read long periods of scripture. I mean, we sort of brag that we go verse by verse. And I think that's wonderful. Don't get me wrong, love that style of preaching. But sometimes in the verse to verse, we still just get in the weeds and we don't even have context of where we are in God's story, his big story, because we're unpacking it verses at a time. Think a lot of christians fail on this level of understanding what God's trying to say? Yes, we're in the story. We have a place, we have instructions, but it's not our little book, our little how to win friends and influence people book that we get to carry with us and pull out the good stuff and put God in a box and say, bless me when I do these things. And yeah, I guess I'll stay away from these bad things so I don't get punishment. I was thinking about this this week. Remember Mount Sinai when Moses is up there getting the Ten Commandments and there's the smoke and the lightning and the thunder and God is up there and all those people are down there. They're like, they don't want any part. It scared them. And just to think, just take our typical american Christian and put him back there 3000 years, 3000 years ago and have somebody sit at the bottom of that shaking mountain and say, well, I wish God would tell me how to grow and bless my business right now. Like, I'd really like to get that boat and my kid into that good school district. And I hope this person gets voted in because it's going to help our country. It's like God's bigger than that. That idea that we're just supposed to borrow God to make our life the way we want, it's just not a healthy view. God is big, his story is big, and we fit in there. So when tragedy happens, like think about the Israelites that were in slavery, that generations came and went, where was their redemption? Right? So we've been through our tragedy. Where's our silver lining? What does it look like? Because if it's holding on to this hope that we're going to live happily ever after, that can be a false hope, right? So what are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to aim for having survived this crisis? Let me just say it another way. How can we serve? What can we do on this side of it? Well, let's start with our church. Encourage your church. Ask your pastor to listen to the church episode. A few episodes back, I've had multiple people say, man, I almost sent that and I was a little too nervous, or I've been chewing on it, or I wrote out an email and I never hit sent send it. What a great conversation starter to explain where the church might not be doing well, serving widows, divorcees. And you can hand them this whole podcast and hopefully soon the unyoked book that's going to come out of this. And if you're not a leader, if you're not a natural speaker, you can't feel like you can't implement something at your church. Push people to good resources. You don't have to get up there and teach the class, but you can tell them, maybe here's what's not good to do and here's what some good things do. Here's some great resources. I'll keep some on my website for you to push as well. You need a renewed sense of purpose and of faith. You are the church. You don't have to rely on your church programs to minister into love. You have the authority to minister in love to those in need and those around you outside your church and in not saying leave your church. But some of you don't have churches that are doing it and you can do it. Look for ways. And once again, we've talked about grace. But putting grace in your life post divorce is so advantageous. Not just for you, for those around you. Rise above retaliation. Rise above self justice. Rise above self love, but improve. Work on yourself. I've been pushing that this whole time. Work on improving. Work on loving yourself. Know your value. Even listening to this podcast shows that you are investing in yourself. You are trying to move forward and recover wisely. Go to counseling. That effort is going to produce so much fruit when you come out of there. You're not going to just click one day and arrive. We don't all arrive. We're working towards sanctification. Counseling helps you in your sanctification without a clear mind, without working through some tough stuff. You're limping into your ministry. Go in. Go into counseling hard. Your first disciples are your children. Model well with them. Love on them. They are in a crisis too, just like you are. Model well. The stats just don't look good for people whose parents have gone through divorce. We know this, we've talked about it. A little personal story here. I sort of helicopter parent for a while. It's a vague term, but I was really attentive to my kids and being present. I not only went to 95% of all their games, in all the sports all year round. I actually went to a lot of practices and recitals and all of it. But I would say almost when they were adults, I pulled all my kids into a room and I gave them a big apology. I said I was trying to model good parenting and being very active in your life because I have friends who, they go golfing and they have all these hobbies and I actually inside look down at them. I'm like, do you not love your kids? I'm literally at all my kids stuff. But I realized after being older and wiser that I wasn't modeling balance. My health wasn't great, maybe my finances weren't great. There was different things that I was doing poorly. While I was bragging of the thing, I was doing good. I say all this to say, not that that was super important. It was. It's okay to ask forgiveness for your kids. I literally asked them for forgiveness and I pointed out my faults and I pointed out where I should have been aiming. And some of you may need to do that as well. We fail over and over, but pouring into your kids and showing them that forgiveness grace, admitting that you're wrong, these are all healthy things. Ask for forgiveness, move forward, do the next right thing. It's never too late to start doing the right thing. Even when you've blown it a thousand different ways. Do the next right thing. Also, you're doing a favor for your next possible spouse. Can you imagine the blessing you will be when you come in healthy with a new spouse, working through all your problems? Imagine the love, the respect that you're going to be able to give. I think I admitted it in one of my other episodes, is that I didn't cherish well, and it's going to be really important for me to work on cherishing well. My next spouse is going to benefit greatly where my first spouse didn't benefit from that. And so, yeah, that's a silver lining is that at least somebody will get it right. I failed, no doubt. It's really interesting. We assume that second marriage will be better. I just got saying through saying how I think it'll be better, but isn't it interesting? I've talked to multiple people who have been divorced twice. This is not scientific, but I think every one of them said that the second divorce wasn't as tough. Now, if you had a quick divorce, maybe when you were in your, you married for 20 years, I guess that would be different. But for those who have been married for a significant amount of time and they got married on the backside, they said it wasn't as tough. And I thought, ouch, ouch. Like there's this idea that, well, I'm going to show a lot more grace to my next spouse or I'm going to behave this certain way. And it seems to be this. I knew it was going to happen. I'm out. Like, you have harder lines with the second one than you do the first one. And isn't that sort of scary? Isn't it sad to know that you're willing to commit to somebody and the second something stinks, you're out because you've done it before. You're like, yeah, I can survive. It may suck, but I can survive. And I don't want that. I don't want that attitude. I want the walls down on the second one. I really do. Maybe it's easier said than done, but I'm going to fight for that. I'm going to encourage you to as well that start with that clean slate. And if you have that attitude of like, this person's probably going to do x y, then maybe don't marry them. Maybe you walk away from that. Because if it doesn't feel like you're ready to throw full grace at something, probably shouldn't be the thing you walk into. I also can help those who are hurting. I am so much better at looking for signs of people in pain that are in tough positions. I'm going to poke. I know that I used to make fun of people who, both the husband and wife are on Facebook. They share the joint account and you're like, oh, man, cut the leash. Don't. Don't let that happen. And now I'm like, yeah, they may have gone through some stuff and it's not for me to judge. If that's how they get on Facebook to see their friends and family, that's what they agree to. Let it roll. But I'm way more attentive and less judgmental. I'm going to tell you a little something. I'm putting my sister in here. This story. But we were talking about this. We were talking about how much more empathetic we are than we used to be. And I'm going to pick on a group, people who collect comics, the old Todd would be know what a nerdy thing that is? Or, oh, yeah, you go look at butterflies and birds. Whatever's judgmental, shallow. I did plenty of that. And I just thought, well, cool. People act this way, nerds act this way, or whatever it is, I thought, because I've been shallow in a thousand ways, but now that I've been through some crap and I'm attentive to people, we have a phrase, okay? And it has a cuss word in it and it starts with f. I won't say it, but we say, let them f and fish. It's a phrase that means anytime we see somebody doing something, we're like, that's what makes them happy. If they want to collect comic books, if they want to go fishing, if they want to, whatever it is, if that gives them some peace, some joy, it helps them numb, it becomes a healthy hobby, whatever. Who am I? Who am I to roll my eyes? Who am I to judge? Who am I to make fun of internally or externally? Let them effing fish. And it's a phrase that we don't get to say out loud too much, but we think it. We say it amongst ourselves. And it's our way to remind each other of. Don't judge that situation. Throw it, Grace. A lot of dang grace. Quit judging how much they go to church, what they wear. They're not letting their I would spank their kid right there because they deserve it. Or that's what good parenting looks like. You don't know crap about what they're going through. You don't. People are going through a lot of journeys and a lot of tough things, and we sometimes look at their behavior and think, oh, shame on them. It's like if you were walking through what they were doing, you might be doing worse or you might start collecting butterfly wings yourself. Just remember that. Just like you, people have gone through a lot of hard stuff. Let's remember the hard stuff of divorce. We're experts in it now. Remember that holidays are hard. When you see that divorced person who's probably more freshly divorced than you are, remember they're on some kind of child schedule. Most likely, they may not get Christmas this year with their kid. They're going to go to bed crying. Remember the first and third weeks with parents and who may have the kids and who aren't and what holidays. Remember, there are lonely houses and lonely people. There's that. Walking around with a scarlet letter and feeling shamed. Also, one thing that I do now, never did before is I just don't put divorce into a simple she's bad, she's good. It happens. They're moving forward. There are two sides to every story. There are layers. Show grace. Show love. Be there for people. Pray for them. Become a prayer warrior. You know how to pray now. Way better. Way better than you did before. For me, this podcast was sort of my next. It was my silver lining for the divorce. It was like, what am I going to do with this? What am I going to do? As I talk to people and I hear their pain stories, and I know people that don't have good, wise people around them. This is why I made this next step, if you will, the 17 episodes. This is the last episode. This is the culmination of all the little milestones that I put in place. So I want to talk a little bit about the podcast and really how it applies to next steps. I'm not saying everybody needs to start a podcast, but this idea of doing something of significance for the next person. First of all, I need to thank two people, Austin Swindall, who's behind this camera every episode, his expertise. Listen, it's hard to make me look decent, and he does a wonderful job with this. And I have some pastors who I'm not going to name names. They've helped out a lot with theology. The reason I'm not naming names is there's a lot of judgmental people out there, and I don't want to get them in trouble if you don't agree with something that I said and then blame them for it. But I ran by everything of significance with theology, with them. They took the time to read, edit, give me feedback, and it was just priceless. I so appreciate it. Once again, sound liberal to many and sound conservative to others. Everybody listening is different. And I just wanted to say, stay close to truth with no heresy. And I think I was able to do that. I knew I was onto something when I started this, that there was a gap in the market, if you will, to put a business phrase there, that divorced people were not being served well, not only in their churches and from the pulpit, but even with podcasts and books, I read so many things that were garbage. They were trying to lean too much to truth and not enough into the mercy and the grace of where we're at. But I know I was onto things because the feedback was even more than I could expect. I got so much really good feedback and painful things right. Doing this was therapeutic for me. And then hearing the feedback I got from people was amazing. I grew my muscles of recovery by writing this and doing it. And then people were growing theirs by listening. Because remember, we're never at our final destination. You'll always be a divorced person, though. We will move way past. But that pain and what we went through has made us change forever. A lot of people actually, I'm just going to be honest. I got frustrated many times along the way on this podcast because I heard even my own friend say, I am way past this. For me, that podcast is not for me. I'm already past it. I'm not worried about divorce. I'm single. I've moved on. But then they would finally listen. They'd say, wow, I cried in my car. You calls me to call my therapist. I left that jerk I was dating. I talked to my church about my divorce. Finally, this podcast was so much different than what they thought it was. And a lot of people think they don't need it, right? It's like, I don't need to exercise. I'm fine. Until you start exercise, you realize can't climb any stairs because you're out of shape. Well, this podcast has sort of been that for plenty of people. This is a divorce podcast, but it's really a divorce recovery podcast. And I think one thing that hurt me a little bit on the marketing of this, and I feel like I want to explain it now, is I never want anybody to think I was going to romanticize divorce because that was never my intention. So I, on purpose, made my first three episodes about, are you thinking about getting divorced? Are you getting one? Here's how to do it. Well, and it was very divorce heavy. I think people may have come in early and thought, yeah, that's great, but that's not for me. I'm already divorced. But the next 14 episodes have been all about divorce recovery. And so it was a little hard to market this. And so if you've stuck through, I appreciate it. And this is why I asked for help, because I think people stigmatize what a christian divorce podcast is. And somehow they think that me, who's not qualified to do anything, can't speak on something. Or like, well, you're not a pastor, or what do you know about divorce theology? And it's like, well, that's not what the purpose of this divorce was all about, this divorce podcast at all. So I want to read a little bit about some feedback I've got just as a thank you and to let you know that you too can change people's lives. You too can have big, profound impact on people this side of your divorce. So here's a couple. Todd, I wanted to thank you for the work you're putting into your podcast. I was married for almost 23 years. I recently filed for my divorce from a husband who was on staff at my church. It doesn't get much more complicated than this. I wish I would have known of your podcast ahead of time. I do find it super helpful. After eight months with zero contact with my ex, I have told so many people about this podcast. Perhaps you could talk of the loss of community and support one feels when you are a leader in the church and your entire support group abandons you during your divorce. I can tell by my last statement I've got a long way to go in my healing process. Anyway, thanks for your ministry. It's helping me out here in Indianapolis. Here's another one. As I listen to your podcast, I hear your hurt, your vulnerability, and the challenges you've gone through as you navigate this difficult walk. I love through your hurt, the wisdom God has given you to pass on to others who may have some of the challenges you talk about. This is a new territory for me. I'm navigating a new chapter in my life as a single man after 29 years of marriage. Wise counsel, my friend. Thank you for your openness to share your insight. Keep up the good work. I'll continue praying for you. Boy, that one meant a lot. Here's another. This is so helpful. As a fellow believer who has been through divorce, I wish this was required viewing for every Christian considering divorce. So many good points. And another, let me tell you, this needs to be said. I grew up with solid parenting. No lack there. The church is not addressing this issue at all. They have no concept what takes place. This is serious. I never want a divorce. It's needed. I pray you focus on this topic and deal with the mourning, the loss, the emotional loss, the physical loss, the psychological loss, the generational loss, the financial loss, the ups and downs. It's hard. Thank you so much. This one was a nice one on the podcast review separated, divorced. Know somebody who's struggling in their marriage? Are there questions and topics you wrestle with that you haven't found a safe space to process? I feel that Tod has a gift of communicating complex and controversial topics with both grace and rawness. Having been divorced for many years, I am thankful to finally hear someone speak candidly about the unspoken struggles of divorce and Christianity. Glad to know more episodes are coming soon. Well, this is the last one. Here's another one. Christian divorces are hard to walk. This podcast is for the landmines and opportunities not talked about in the church pulpit. So remember episode zero for those of you who listen, we talked about how I wanted this podcast to be. What's to expect when you're expecting? Remember the pregnancy book? I wanted it to be post divorce book to talk about all the phases and the milestones. I think we've done that and I'm very proud of the work that we've done. I thank you so much for your feedback and I'm telling you one of the biggest things that you could do is rate and review the podcast, share it with friends, comment on the episodes on YouTube, and offer suggestions like I don't fully know what we're going to do. I know I committed to these 17. I'm sure there will be lingering resources and thoughts and we may travel a little bit further. I'm not sure, but just stay in touch. Follow me on social media. We survive this. God is good. We are his children who he loves and protects and disciplines. Pray to him often for a bountiful life of service and to protect your know. I was at church the other day with a group of people that were visiting we had all gone to Israel together and we were having a reunion tour and I was at a church I wasn't normally in, and I looked over and I saw some stairs that went up to, that went to the pulpit right on the side, to the side of the stage. And something about stairs just reminds me to pray. I have had my face in the carpet upstairs so many times and something in the middle of the sermon. The sermon had nothing to do with this. The second my eyes caught those stairs, it was a reminder for me to pray for my children. It's not like we made it and they're adults, they're all out of the house. But I just wanted to remind myself to keep praying. Pray for the different stages of life that they have to go through. God is a specialist at making something useful and beautiful out of something broken. Thank you for listening. Thank you for your support. Visit todturner.com divorce and please reach out. I'd love to hear your stories and your feedback. I mean that. I will read every single email that comes in. Blessings.