Spiritual Bypassing? The Church vs. Mental Health in Divorce Recovery

UnYoked Podcast presents Episode 12: "Counseling Post Divorce - Just Do It," a candid conversation hosted by Todd Turner exploring the intersection of faith and psychological healing after marital dissolution. In this enlightening session, Todd addresses the church’s shortcomings in dealing with complex post-divorce issues and why spiritual remedies like prayer may not be enough (00:02:13). Hear why some pastors may be doing more harm than good when it comes to mental health and counseling services (00:05:40), and discover why it's essential to collaborate with professionals who transcend traditional church boundaries (00:06:55).

Whether you're struggling with unresolved personal issues or you're searching for a post-divorce counselor that aligns with your faith (00:41:10), Episode 12 offers insights into balancing truth with grace in Christian counseling and the journey towards self-discovery (00:45:27). It's a must-listen for anyone seeking growth and healing on the other side of divorce.

Transcript

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To support the Unyoked podcast and to help others. Please subscribe and rate right now. And if this resource is helpful, please tell a friend. Now let's get started. The Unyoke podcast navigating the pain, process and possibilities after a christian divorce welcome to the Unyoked podcast, where today we're going to talk about christian counseling and divorce. What's funny with sort of marriage problems, even divorce problems, is the person who knows you best in the whole wide world. They think you suck, you know? So it's a great opportunity, right, to work on yourself a little bit. As you just chew on that, it's sometimes crushing that the person that you love and the person that has loved you, you're in this battle, and sometimes you have to do some self reflection with all those conversations that come your way. So it's divorce, post marriage, post unyoking. Divorce is a great time to self reflect as you look at your characteristics and your habits and actually those little comments, sometimes biting comments that your ex has made about you and you chew on it. I'm going to be really transparent here. In one of my conversations, my ex just probably threw me a throwaway comment, right? It's just like, I just hate that underwear you wear. Well, when they walk out of the room and you're chewing on like, do I wear bad? Like, do I? So I went and threw it all in the trash and I went to Amazon and I made them a lot of money. Over the next couple months, I just went out and changed my whole style. But it was the same concept of, like, who am I? What do I do? And what maybe actually needs improved, right? Look at some of your mindsets. Some of the things, what makes us up, our characteristics come to us before we're married. Sometimes they're formed during marriage, and then of course, sometimes we still have them afterwards. So when we talk about christian counseling, I'm not just talking about healing from your divorce. Sure, many of us need to do that. But as we get older, as we get wiser, we can see things in our habits and we can see issues easier with time. So during my marriage, I was in therapy, and I had never been before. I actually thought very little about it. I thought, well, therapy is for people who are going through stuff. Well, I was going through stuff which got me in there. And then I just loved when I walked out, the thoughts to chew on, the lenses, the exercises that they gave us to do were so good and beneficial. And even though my marriage didn't last, all that exercising and exercising of the mind did last for me. So then I went through divorce therapy and now I go, not so much for divorce therapy, just for ToD, just for myself as I work on, you know, let's be honest, friends are really not enough. Friends are biased and many of them are unqualified. It doesn't mean you can't get wise counsel, and it doesn't mean that you can't read a book. It doesn't mean you can't listen to podcasts like this. Right? You can learn in a lot of areas, but it's not the same thing as sitting in front of somebody who is a trained professional who is taking notes and listening to you and hearing patterns over and over. Sometimes your friends just aren't going to say, like, you've been talking about this problem for five years. Are you going to do anything about it? Another problem I think we have when it comes to counseling is christians think of issues in terms of sin and sanctification. Right? It's like, well, is that a sin behavior? And you need to be sanctified and get out of that. But the issue with life and living in a broken world is there can be real trauma in your life, point of origin issues, things that you inherited from family that can cause real issues in your life that prevent us from maybe even having a great relationship with our savior, but also with the people living around us and from living robust lives. And it's not as simple as are you being good or bad or sin or not? Your mind and a healthy mind is a faculty necessary for sanctification and even for a quality life. And it certainly helps those that live with us or near us. So what type of counseling are we talking about here? Once again, there's mentorship, there's people who are influenced in our lives, maybe a good pastor. I think sometimes we think our pastor is our counselor because we hear him once a week for 45 minutes. I disagree. And then sometimes we're talking once again about good friends. But what are we saying is the difference between counseling and getting counsel? Right. They're two different things. Christianhood, if you will. Right. Christianity and psychology don't really blend. They're sort of taboos. Not for all of you listening, some of you listening, your pastors may be very transparent and tell you they're in counseling, or it could be sort of like, what was the tv show, the Sopranos. Right. The whole premise of that whole show was that Tony, I believe his name was, couldn't go to counseling. If the mob found out he was in counseling, they would kill him because you don't go to counseling. You're a mobster. Well, same with pastors. Some pastors make it taboo because they think it's a point of weakness that, well, if you can't get your solutions from the Bible, you must not be a very good pastor. So they too rail on counseling from the pulpit, which is really bad. Right? And there's verses, too, that sort of some lean to beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy or empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the basic principles of the world and not according to Christ. And you are complete in him who is the head of it all, of all principality and of power. Right? I think that's in Colossians. And so that idea that the Bible is perfect for us, it's sufficient. And everything you need and all your behaviors and all your solutions are in the Bible. That's just the idea that is pushed for many churches and pastors who don't like the idea of worldly psychology. So let's get into that just for a split second of is the Bible sufficient? Like, what does that mean? Well, sometimes if you don't believe or you believe that it is, you believe that a secular culture is sinful. It's an old mindset that we should turn away. But truth and all truth comes through the word and the reading of the word and the study of the word. But it's really funny is that there's a lot of stuff that's not in the Bible, right? Not all truth is in the Bible. The Bible is true, but not all truths in the Bible. And there is goodness outside the Bible. There is beauty outside the Bible that's available to us. But if we just circle the wagons and we do nothing but study God's word, and that's all we do, we say that anything on the outside is bad. Well, that's a slippery slope, because then, you see, that happened in certain denominations. It's like they don't even take their kids to the doctor when they get sick because the Bible is sufficient. Like, you should be praying more. You should have faith. I don't think anywhere in the Bible says that that would be true. Right. There's medicine and there's the arts and science that are outside of the Bible. And so you have to be really careful when you think about what does sufficiency mean? But psychology is very close to theology. It is a tricky line to walk. But what's so offensive to me is that when people go through trauma, when people are dealing with issues in their life is having counselors who throw Bible verses at the problem. And that's why we get that so much in Christianity. Is this idea that, well, you just must not know about this verse or you're not relying on this verse or you wouldn't have that problem. When somebody's dealing with anxiety, well, just trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding, and in all your ways, acknowledge him and he will set your path straight. Okay. Don't kill yourself. Good luck. You just didn't read problems three, five through six that would have solved that problem. Just don't be anxious. The Bible tells us not to. And since you are, you're sinning. And that's so bad. Well, it goes back to what we mentioned a couple of episodes ago. We were talking about how the church fails us, because once again, that idea that maybe we've been in a car wreck and we're bloody and we're limping, and we come into church and the church just says, well, cars aren't made to be wrecked. Here's what a good marriage looks like. Here's what God thinks about divorce. And they don't really lean into our issues, but we have been in a wreck. We're bleeding. What are we going to do about it? And this idea that if you just pray more, just read your bible, if you knew more about this verse, if you would attend church, that's where you need to be. Church, we love you here, and that's just where you need to be. But that's not always the answer. Life has some complex problems, and we have some psychology issues, dysfunctional issues, trauma issues. And maybe your dysfunction is not a sin and maybe not a lack of knowledge or a lack of knowledge of a biblical principle. We have to split hairs between what is maybe being saved, sanctified and what is recovery. What are personality traits and what is trauma and the effects of them versus what are your habits? What is the culture? What is the culture of your family? It's very, very complex. So many small minded pastors and the preaching they give from the pulpit can create problems that permeate to the other church leaders, to the younger associate pastors, which then goes into the small group leaders. This then goes into family mindsets. And so churches in their little circles and wagons, you can have different churches that teach different things about counseling. And especially if they just get up there and say, it's foolish. All these kids with add, they just need a good spanking and people are giving them too much medicine and they're numbing them up and people clap. They don't get it. They haven't walked through it. It's really bad. I know families that have suicidal kids, right? And their pastors are railing on the medicine that they get the help that we're getting. And it's like, do you want your theology to be right or do you want to save my child's life? Like, this medicine is helping my kid. The kids are bouncing around the walls, but I'm not going to get a medication because my pastor says, if I just love the Lord more, if I just read this Bible verse, if I just spank them more, it's so frustrating because when the pastor says it, it trickles down and it's really, really dangerous. So here's what I recommend. Find a counselor who isn't afraid to point you to meditation, to other doctors, or to deeper counseling, one that doesn't necessarily, you know, our church's solution. Like, once again, I think you just need to come hang out in awanas. That would just be so good for you to come work on Wednesday night and just get in a circle with these people and that'll work on your anxiety issues, that'll work on your trauma, that'll work on all the problems you got in life. If you would just come be a part of this hamster wheel, that'll solve everything. You need somebody who is a trained professional, but with the lens of being Christian, and we're going to talk about that. But here's the beauty of counseling. Here's the beauty of getting in that circle. Because once again, if you listen to certain pastors that say, don't do this, you have a problem. Because I say this all the time. Thoughts disentangle themselves over the lips and through the fingertips. When you have that meeting, when you have a rolling meeting every month or every other week, you know you're going to talk. You know you're going to hear yourself. You know that people are going to hear you, too. And you're like, wow, I do do that. They'll give you exercise. You're like, wow, every time this happens, I do see that trait in myself. And you talk that out and you grow and you learn. And to heck, would anybody tells you that's stupid? It's not stupid at all. And some of you coming out of really bad situations in your marriage, toxic situations, are you ever going to be ready for a secure, healthy relationship if you don't work out the toxic, if you don't spend time, you can't say, oh, that person's out of my life. I signed this sheet of paper, and they moved out. Everything's fine. That's not correct. Even though they may have been 99% of the problem, they weren't the whole problem. You were part of it. Your mind and your body must heal from your divorce. A body, when it feels safe, finally feels exhausted. It relaxes in its rest state. It's like, oh, I'm safe. And sometimes you'll go into these deep, deep valleys of sleep, and your body's saying, I've been running on adrenaline. It's time to relax. We talked about the book, the body keep score. Well, so does your mind and your gut. Some of your lethargic problems aren't just you're lazy. It could be food problems, bacterial issues. There's so much data now that talks about what we eat and the ph, chemical balance in our stomach and our gut affects our brain. It affects our mood, affects our behavior. They're all tied. And to act like everybody's problem is based on sin and sanctification just doesn't mesh with reality. Some of us are broken, and some of you don't want to admit it, and some of you even deny it. But at our age, if you're listening, you're an adult. So I think I could say our age. Anybody from 18 to 90, right? I mean, we have problems that need addressed, and it's so easy to smooth it over. Play the blame game, play the victim, and or just adapt your life where you don't have to deal with it. And that's what happens, is many of you see the world through your hurts and your defenses. Your character traits are being developed around your problems. You're insecure in areas, you've been hurt in areas, and you literally have become reclusive, bossy, walls up the job. You take the lifestyle, your friend group, your wardrobe, how you dress, because somebody made fun of you in the third grade, and now you dress nice all the time. Your music, you listen to your taste. All these behaviors that you think are normal very often come through issues in your life. And you took those in, and your poor ex had to deal with those and adapt. And then now you have trauma from your ex, and you've got to have a lot of unpacking to do. And I am shocked how many people say, well, I haven't really went to therapy or I read this book or whatever, but I found the people that are the best, healthiest people to date have literally bragged about their therapy. They're like, I could not be here without deep, deep therapy. They put in the work is what we say. Those of us who put in the work, that's what we look for. We will say they put in the work and put in the work doesn't mean, well, I left and I've out here living my best life and man, I'm so happy and I'm great. I'm like bull. No, you're not. That's just somebody staying busy. That's not somebody who's put in the work. And what happens is hurt people, whether they know they're hurt or not hurt people hurt people. I see it over and over again. When you're not healed, you attract people who aren't healed or you hurt them. And guess what? They go back into therapy all because you're not in a good place. And think about it. Do you really want the person who would tolerate your nonsense? Is that the kind of person you want somebody who literally will put up with all your hurts and all your behaviors that come from your hurts? What's the old joke that they say is, I wouldn't be a member of a country club that would have me. Well, it sort of works the same way with this. Why would I want to date somebody who would tolerate me in a hurt mode? And it's just so good to talk it all out. It's not a one time deal. I actually know somebody who really had some problems. Trust me, I know. We talked about them and they went to the counselor because I talked them into it. They went twice and I asked them how it was going. They go, oh, they told me I was fine, that would go. We worked through it. And I was saying, there's no way there's a counselor in the world who said, you're fine after two times. There's no way. They just didn't want to go any further. They dealt with what they wanted to deal with. They didn't want to drop the walls and go further, so they just moved on. But it's not that simple. Counseling is a lifestyle. As a matter of fact, here's how counseling really works. It works in mountains and plateaus in seasons. It's not like you just get better like this. What really happens is you have breakthroughs, plateaus, breakthroughs, plateaus, because it's sort of like if God wanted to work at you all at once, you would be in deep trouble if your life just went horribly wrong. And you're like, oh, God's trying to tell me something. Oh, it must be this. We probably have 15, 2100 this is at once. How do you know which one it is? And the same with therapy is every once in a while you'll have a click moment of aha, the paradigm shift of like, I do do that. Or do you know? That is why that did happen to me when I was younger and I see this behavior. Well, then what you have to do is travel a little while with that knowledge and improve it. And then you'll have another aha moment. And then another one and another one. Who knows how long it takes? I mean, I know people have been in therapy for 30, 40 years. It's great because sometimes you need to sit in it. You can't keep making changes because if you do, you'll never master the first one you started working on. You pace it out. So what kind of counselor do we want? Well, there's a debate. All right. And that is. Let'S take a quick break. Are you facing the challenging crossroads of divorce? I bet you know of someone who is. Well, now there's a resource for your shelf. Maybe for you, maybe for a friend. Unyoked choices the Christian Handbook for divorce decisions, a book for those in need. Buy one for you or for a friend? Navigate the divorce decision and the execution of unyoking with wisdom, strength, and confidence. Available now in paperback and kindle, only 899. Order your copy today. Visit toddturner.com books. Unyoked choices because these decisions matter. There are oaths that normal counselors are under. It is sort of like a Doctor. You sign your hippocratic oath and they're bound as well. Well, christian counselors, once again, there's a difference between a counselor who is a Christian and a christian counselor. Okay, hear that? There is a difference between a counselor who is a Christian but is bound by boards and oaths and a counselor who counsels out of a christian lens, that the christian counselor works with lenses and that they can balance truth and grace with their skill set. Does that make sense? My counselor, one time, I'm very open with my counselor. I feel sorry for this man. He must have a giant mansion in heaven. I don't know. He's getting some special treat, I'm sure, thanks to me. But I speak very authentically with him and I'm very honest about what I do, what I say, what I think, embarrassingly. So I hate to say this, because not all pastors are this. I'm going to pick on some pastors. Pastors will be quick to tell you. Here's what the Bible says about that. Right? Well, the Bible says, don't do that. Why are you taking heroin? Don't take heroin. That's stupid. Well, the guy who's taking heroin, he's probably going to be counsel a lot better by somebody who's taking heroin in the past because he's going to know what you've gone through and what you're going through. He's not going to throw a verse. Well, my guy, by the way, not on heroin, but that was an example. But my guy tells me frequently, I'm not your holy spirit. Meaning I'm here to listen to you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to give you wise counselor, tell you when I hear bs. But I'm not your holy spirit and I'm not going to tell you when you should be working on what. Because you've got your work, especially when you're in trauma, you're working on so many things at once. If a pastor just guessed which one you need to make the one to change today, well, then he'd be making a big guess. And so when you're being really authentic and you're throwing out a lot of bad stuff, a trained professional sort of can seize habits. They can listen to you in a way that your friends can't. And then as a Christian, they can speak to you with some biblical truth that can set you back on track. Right. But their goal is to move the needle in the relationship, build trust and build empathy, and you will see change over time versus cold turkey solutions. Here's your verse. Here's your biblical concept. I cannot believe you would do. Matter of fact, now we're going to have to kick you out of the church because now I know you do that. Well, we can't have that around here. Right. But a good counselor helps you with self discovery, not preaching, but listening and being real. Real friend, listener and a real bat. Sometimes all my good friends cuss. They're real, they're raw, and sometimes, dang it and heck, don't cut it when you're in the middle of it. Ready? When you're in the middle of some shit. Not when you're in the middle of some stuff. When you're in the middle of some shit. It's this idea of when you are in a downspot. You need somebody who can come alongside you and talk it out, not somebody with the tie. And it's just going to sit here and say, well, you shouldn't cuss. The Bible says. Don't cuss what? The Bible says. You shouldn't do that. No, we're in triage. Many of you are in triage from the trauma of your divorce, but many of you have some real problems and you're not going to get out of it just with reading a Bible verse. It's going to take something deeper. But I'm not going to send you to a secular world. I want to send you to a christian counseling. That's that blend. I think it's so, so important. But some of you have never been real. You're wound too tight in religion and doing good, and you're going to have a real hard time with counseling. When you get good at grace, you can spot souls that permeate it, too. When you receive grace, when we talked about this vertical grace, you give it out horizontally, but when you get it back, you can spot it and find a counselor who's really good at grace and empathy, and it will help you grow so much. One that doesn't just preach at you, right? But find one that doesn't undermine your faith, your christian faith. Like there is that balance between the truth of scriptures and the grace. Truth and grace. That tension we talk about all the time. I'm going to put some resources on my website versus giving them on this podcast because as the list grows or things change or I get educated in some areas and I just want to be able to put content and change that on my website. So I have much more to say. But come to toddturner.com divorce. If you're looking for a counselor, I will put links and give you some great resources that I don't want to put here? Because this is more evergreen, this is going to last forever and that one can churn. I think the only way to do that is with the website. So think about this. If the answer to a broken arm is we'll pray and read the Bible more, then we'd have a problem, right? So why is it fine for us to find a non believing physician to set our bone and to treat us as patients, but yet we just have such a problem with saying anything outside our pastors is a sin. Like our pastor is the christian doctor. Jesus is a great physician, but Jesus also gave us grace here on this earth and ways that we can enjoy art and we can enjoy doctor training. We don't have to go to christian hospitals. Well, we can go to well rounded christian counselors for help. It is. Okay. Psychology and counseling isn't the same thing. Okay, let's talk about this. Counselors are not psychiatrists or psychologists. They are mental health professionals who provide guidance and support to individuals, couples and families. They may have a master's degree in counseling or in a related field and they typically work with people who are experiencing emotional or behavioral problems. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who specialize in the diagnosis and treatment and prevention of mental illness. They are trained to recognize the way biological processes affect mental functioning and they can prescribe medications. Now on the other hand, a psychologist is a professional who holds a doctorate degree in psychology. They provide a variety of talk therapies, they offer psychological testing and evaluation and they cannot prescribe medication in most cases. In summary, psychiatrists are medical doctors who can prescribe medications, while psychologists are not medical doctors and cannot prescribe medications. Now, it's established that three illnesses are started and maintained by bad gut bacteria, depression, type two diabetes, and Alzheimer's. Different foods can create problems. We talked about the gut affects the body, it affects the mind. I went through some big depression and if I had gone to a certain christian counselor, it would have wasted my time and I'd have gotten worse. I mean, my depression probably was associated obviously with trauma and some things are going in my life. But also it's that circular problem where you eat bad, so you feel bad, you feel bad and you eat bad. And getting in a room and talking about that versus just going to church, what I'm going to say is so controversial, but I'm going to say it. If theology fixed all our problems, meaning if we just would go to church, read more and pray more, then why doesn't everybody in our churches look like yoga instructors? All perfect, no body fat, no depression or whatever. It's because it's not true. Like, food affects us, our environment affects us, our culture affects us, all these things affect us. And we can't just throw Bible verses at ourselves. Look in the mirror, look at ourselves. We're not really doing great to tell the world, look at us, look at our joy, look what we found, and then look at us. We don't really show that all the time. Some of us need to work on ourselves outside of the rows of church. Find a biblical counselor who has a biblical lens, but his assumptions are not the same as your pastors, maybe, and they look at your destructive behavior slowly, gently, patiently, and they offer you wisdom and hope. Right? By the way, christians that imply that if you've got your act together, you have this joy that just radiates sort of what I talked about. The Bible talks a lot about lamenting seasons. There's a season to cry and it's okay, it's okay. In certain seasons to go seek out counseling. I'm not trying to tell you everybody needs to be in counseling for life. But if you have not been and you're listening to this podcast, you've been through a divorce, man. I'm going to tell you, I bet you if you got in there, you'd be happy you did. I've actually been told multiple times. The people who have listened to this podcast have come to me and said, I thought I was way past this. Like, what do I need about divorce recovery? I moved on and they've heard something that just sort of hurt or poked and they got back into counseling. I sort of like that because it means I'm doing my job. I'm having people think about something with a different lens on and say, ooh, I haven't dealt with that. Ooh, I do still have anger. Ooh, I do still do that stupid thing. Why do I do that? Who can I talk to about that? Well, unfortunately, it's not always your pastor, especially when it comes to certain issues. But yeah, find yourself a counselor. You can get through that. And some of you probably have some past stories. I know one of the counselors I had really seemed to side with my ex, which drove me nuts, but give it another shot. Change counselors. Just because you had a bad time with one doesn't mean they're all that way. Could have been a personality issue. They're flawed people, too, right? That's fair. You don't have to get along with all of them. But some of you have some deep wounds from the past and maybe try some of it I've burned through. I've gone to a couple of them don't go to anymore because I just don't click with them. But the ones I've found that I do fit with. That's great. This is just a deep topic, and I'd rather not get into all the rabbit trails of a theology with this, but our mind, once again, I said it before, is a faculty necessary for our sanctification. We need healthy minds. We need healthy bodies. We need healthy minds to be in service for the Lord and to love and to be good neighbors and to be good husbands, wives, fathers, sons, daughters. I hope this episode has shed some light on the value of christian counseling after your divorce. And if you know somebody that's going through a challenging time, if you are, just remember that you're not alone. Right. There is healing grace available to you. Don't just suck it in, tough it out, and put on the mask that we so often do and go to church and smile and just go home and don't live a fulfilled, robust life. That's not what God wants from you. It's not. Thank you. Go to the website toddturner.com divorce. Go look for more resources and if you're really looking for a counselor, I will have some links in there of maybe ways you can do some vetting. But thank you very much for listening. Talk to you next time. Thank you for listening to the Unyoked podcast with me, Todd Turner. This was originally planned to be a limited 17 episode podcast navigating the major milestones after the divorce. Well, the feedback and needs were too great and now I'm going to dive deeper into each episode. But with a female cohost, we are excited to help further the conversations into divorce recovery and gaining healthy single legs as a Christian. But would you do us a favor as we prepare our topics and episodes, please go to toddturner.com contact and give us feedback on the podcast specific episodes topics you wish were addressed. We would love to hear from you. Then after that, please rate and review this pod cast. You might not know how important that is to help grow the popularity and the reach of this resource for thousands of people who need it and don't even know it exists. Rate, subscribe share all of it. But let's start with go to toddturner.com contact and let me hear from you. I read every single email that comes in blessing.